Forum:The Future of K Project Wiki

Introduction
It has become clear from this forum post and the fallout from that discussion that this community is in an uncertain state. For that reason, as Wikia staff I have removed the Admin and Bureaucrat rights from the current leadership and restored the accounts of those involved in the debate. This community needs to come together and decide on its own future. Please use this forum as an open place for discussion when it comes to nominating future leaders and determining community guidelines for these sorts of events. --semanticdrifter (help forum | blog) 20:15, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Well, it's pretty obvious Glass Heart should most definitely not be an admin here: That being said, I'm in favor of User:UltimateSupreme and User:Speysider to become the bureaucrats/admins of this Wiki. Their contributions shows no abusing of their rights. Also, I'm not sure why User:Osuras and User:Omega natsu2 were unblocked. They are not even editors of this Wiki, they are biased in this discussion. They troll and sockpuppet here.--White Flash (Contact) 22:33, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) She abuse her rights
 * 2) She try to take over this Wiki for herself
 * 3) She gather user who are not even editors of this Wiki to support her
 * 4) She was in many revert wars after she has been warned not to
 * 5) Puts up a highly accusations on others with no evidences

In contradiction to your statements, White Flash, Glass Heart would make the perfect administrator for the wiki she views as a home. In addition to that, Remnant13 is another candidate for that position, which he needs to regain after it was taken from him so absurdly and unwisely.
 * 1) Glass Heart does not abuse her rights, and follows the policy.
 * 2) Glass Heart encourages user to both watch/read the series, and edit on this wiki she values dearly.
 * 3) Glass Heart has all of the qualities of becoming a bureaucrat and admin.
 * 4) She edits here regularly and lets the community voice its opinion.
 * 5) She does not block people for voicing what they have to say.
 * 6) She stays civilized even when pressured by the conflicts you've caused her.
 * 7) She does not favor one user, rather the community itself.
 * 8) Has spent a great amount of time here.
 * 9) Has proven to have deep understanding of how to control admin powers.
 * 10) Her edits are of top quality.
 * 11) Has great communication skills.
 * 12) Rarely does something without contacting and receiving the others' opinion and comments.
 * 13) Remnant13 is a well devoted user.
 * 14) He has made all of the beautiful templates the wiki has.
 * 15) Knows how to work with the coding on the CSS and Mono pages.
 * 16) Has been here for a long time.
 * 17) Edits only help, not harm, the wiki.
 * 18) Great personality.
 * 19) Tries his best to avoid discussions.
 * 20) Has shown great control over the power given.

UltimateSupreme and Speysider shall not obtain such power because of their time on this wiki. Speysider has played a very bad role here: the cause of all of this, I should mention. UltimateSupreme was given power for the CSS help, correct? If so, why add him to the list when his role is already done, White Flash? Also, I do not troll nor sockpuppet here or anywhere, I'll have you know. Attain evidence before accusing someone of fake crimes, former administrator. You tried to silence me, but that didn't work for you. Also, you seem to be forgetting that this is not my first time here on this wiki, and the fact that I said that I visit this wiki a lot. Unlike some users. Anyway, I

Bureaucrats and Admin rights to Glass Heart & Remnant13.

UltimateSupreme and Speysider as Admins, and let alone Bureaucrats.

Also White Flash, it seems as though you did not read what I said in my previous comment on this issue. However, the staff has pointed out some points I said myself. I hope you read his words, and not just skipped to the voting. Sincerely, 23:43, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * You are not even an editor here, your contributions shows you write out your annoying signature template and participate in two forums you are not even involved in this Wiki in other words you're Meat puppet. Your opinion means nothing. You're also in denial and ignoring the facts of which I provided. Here's something you seriously do not know about Speysider and UltimateSupreme since you're not a frequent visitor here.


 * 1) Both are very good at MediaWiki
 * 2) UltimateSupreme administrates on several wikis so he has some very good experiences in handling them
 * 3) Speysider is a long time editor of Wikia since 2009 so he too has some experiences.
 * 4) They're civil
 * 5) Have not seen any of them abuse their rights
 * That being said. They should have rights.--White Flash (Contact) 23:54, February 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * You know, you should read what you write before you publish. You ignore and insult what we, the community and staff, say. However, I do not require pity. As you stated yourself, two forums. Now, lets look at the dates. First forum: December 27, 2012 of last year. Second: February 9, 2013 of this year. Please tell me again that my opinion on this matter does not have any importance, according to you. Havin' said that, White Flash, Speysider, who joined this wiki February 5, 2013 of this year can voice his opinion? And please do not tell me anything about edits, you've said enough about how the edit count does not matter. Don't be a even bigger hypocrite. Now, about UltimateSupreme, who joined a day after Speysider, can voice his opinion, too? If that's so, then nothing is preventing me from doing so myself, correct? And Speysider did, in fact, abuse his power. He threatened a well devoted user, Glass, and deleted the forum staff strictly said not to. Rem is also very good at MediaWiki, and you know it.

I hate it when people compare wikis to one another. I do not practice such thing, it's very unproductive, but I'll tell you something you should think about. Don't you feel proud when people tell you that you're doing an amazing job as an admin? I do, and I hope you do too. It's not all about the power, the people and their opinion matter. Finally, show me the evidence of me using a sockpuppet, which you claim to be sure of. Also, if you think that dates matter so much, why give rights to a user who did not even have one edit before receiving the power? How will the wiki flourish if you look down on the new users? Stop avoiding what I say and prove, former administrator. 00:45, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

O yeah, almost forgot. Why didn't you tell DestroyerBDT17 any of the things you tell the new users? 00:52, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Lets see:
 * December 27, 2012:You voice your so called "opinion" to have User:StarCrossedWonderland rights be remove. (Your first edit)
 * February 9, 2013:You acted incivility, by calling me "brainless" (An evidance of your trolling)
 * That being said you're meat puppet. I suggest you read my message rather than ignoring it. Speysider have been editing on articles so he voice does matters, also Glass Heart was going on arbitrarily deleting images and templates after she was warn so that's why Speysider warned her for the last time. I'm not trying to be a hypocrite, you are by saying how insulted staff which isn't true but you insulted me on another fourm.--White Flash (Contact) 01:03, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for avoiding the other half of my comment, while saying that I'm ignoring your massages, White Flashy. Evidence of me trolling, you say? For starters, I was not the only one who thought StarCrossedWonderland rights should be removed, and I said nothing of her doing a bad or good job. Proving her inactivity. By calling you brainless I repeated what you've been calling the editors here. If you don't remember yourself doing so, go look at their talk pages.

Since you're pointing out the stuff I'm ignoring, which I'm sure I answered again for the third time, I'll do the same.
 * 1) "Why didn't you tell DestroyerBDT17 any of the things you tell the new users?"
 * 2) "Also, if you think that dates matter so much, why give rights to a user who did not even have one edit before receiving the power? How will the wiki flourish if you look down on the new users?"
 * 3) "Speysider did, in fact, abuse his power. He threatened a well devoted user, Glass, and deleted the forum staff strictly said not to. Rem is also very good at MediaWiki, and you know it."
 * 4) "I hate it when people compare wikis to one another. I do not practice such thing, it's very unproductive, but I'll tell you something you should think about. Don't you feel proud when people tell you that you're doing an amazing job as an admin? I do, and I hope you do too. It's not all about the power, the people and their opinion matter."
 * 5) "UltimateSupreme, who joined a day after Speysider, can voice his opinion, too? If that's so, then nothing is preventing me from doing so myself, correct?"

I don't know what your definition of sockpuppet is, but it appears as though you don't have a clear understanding of it. This is my real, and only account which I use for everything. No one orders me to do anything, I do what I feel should be done. Thus why I consider myself to be a part of the K wiki's community, and am allowed to voice my thoughts, just like DestroyerBDT17, UltimateSupreme and Speysider can.

01:20, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Way to contradict yourself. Did I ever say you were a sockpuppet? No. Once again read my message more thoroughly sweetie, mmkay? It's pretty obvious you're a troll by admitting it by calling me brainless for no apparent reason and before I hear your petty excuse, I'll answer your so called "questions":
 * Bringing up DestroyerBDT17 into this is unnecessary just like your opinion.
 * Glass Heart was going on arbitrarily deleting images and templates after she was warn so that's why Speysider warned her for the last time.
 * I gave Speysider Bureaucrat rights to help out with policies, templates etc.
 * "Don't you feel proud when people tell you that you're doing an amazing job as an admin?" I've been editing on Wikia for 3 years now. I was the only one who help wikis with their content and increasing their page numbers, not one user has ever said "good job" to me and I've never administrate those Wikis.
 * UltimateSupreme obtaining rights was to only help fix CSS that Remant13 did not know about and that was it.
 * --White Flash (Contact) 01:48, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * "Why didn't you tell DestroyerBDT17 any of the things you tell the new users?" Probably would have been helpful to possibly prevent his slip-up in putting information about himself on a new page as opposed to on his userpage although, not exactly relevant to this discussion. Azareal (talk) 13:27, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I recommend you find yourself a dictionary and keep it by your side at all time. I don't see myself contradicting anything. I don't remember trolling you or anyone here. I suggest you stop bluntly accusing people. I'm not sure if you understand the meaning of "everyone can speak their mind," but obviously you show signs of negativity. My opinion does matter and is being recorded by staff, even as we speak, so watch your mouth, boy. If you keep accusing people and giving your so called "evidence," then is it alright for me to say that DestroyerBDT17 is a sockpuppet created by you or one of your lackeys for the sole purpose of this discussion? A user who randomly appears out of the nowhere, no history no nothing, not even an edit, is totally not suspicious. Right.

If you look at my comment of why I support the two candidates I selected, I did not direct any insults at any of you. However, instead of noting a lot of good facts of the ones you support, you did the opposite. You went and attacked Glass with puny assaults, White Flashy. I can assume by that, that this wiki is nothing more than just a playground for you, in which you bully for the sake of it. If it bothers you that I stated my opinion, resolve the issue professionally. Not by bluntly throwing accusations all over the place. Stop being such a coward. Your responses to my questions prove your arrogance, White Flashy. Stop dwelling on the bad, ignorant points you keep on pointing out and move on to a different topic. By replying to my comment in the way you did, staff can now see your immaturity and your poor decisions making skills. This forum was made so that everyone can voice their opinions, not the ones you yourself select. Bureaucrat rights are not needed for the things you mentioned. If that was the case, then everyone would require said rights. Deleting images and templates that are not being used is not power abuse, but blocking everyone because the truth was thrown at your face is. This also proves your lack of self-control, and your hunger for dispute over the smallest thing. Again, your actions have spoken for you today. 02:21, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * /facepalm You seriously are the biggest troll ever by:


 * still calling me "White Flasy"
 * Calling me arrogant
 * "I recommend you find yourself a dictionary and keep it by your side at all time" The same goes for you, look up the word "compromise" It's what I've been doing but you nor anyone else have ever tried. Your petty self righteousness is another example of your trolling. Saying how DestroyerBDT17 is a sock puppet of me which is really you trying to attack me, and your others baseless accusations of my "power hunger" with no evidence to back you up is just plain idiotic of yourself. You need stop living in your own little imagination world Omega, wake up and look into reality for once. Stop trying to think that you or Glass are the targeted ones, you are most certainly not it's you who are trying to target others. Like I said, you're a meat puppet. You claim how you're a frequent visitor how K Project Wiki but you seriously did not see Glass Heart's actions towards some users, that being said you're contradicting yourself. My decision for letting Glass Heart to become an admin was indeed poor but my other decisions were not. Saying how Glass Heat deleted those templates and images all because they were unused is merely trying to change the topic. I'm sure Staff can tell you've done nothing but troll Omega.--White Flash (Contact) 02:40, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I don't see any meatpuppets. Pretty sure this is a Meatpuppet. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fq3Vi_ERL44/TVS1V_2A6XI/AAAAAAAAAOo/jn6y3LVd9uk/s320/meatpuppet.jpg SeaTerror (talk) 02:49, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Repetition seems to be your only option after being hit with sincerity. Firstly, White Flashy is a nickname I came up with, just like how you call Glass ---> Glassy when you're left with no words to say. So don't start arguing about that, White Flashy. I don't intend to waste any more of my time. I already stated what I wanted to state, and won't take any of my words back. If it bothers you so, ignore it and watch as this story unfolds. P.S. helping you out. 02:51, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * And trying to antagonize me seems to be your only way of discussing isn't it? If you didn't want to waste any of your time then why are you here? You're now trying to revive the horse that you beat to death Omega. Still calling me "White Flasy" will make Staff members realize you're a troll right?--White Flash (Contact) 02:56, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Redundant. Not once have I said anything against your favor that was not true. Unlike you, who keeps throwing me accusations without any evidence supporting your so called statements. Stop trying to prologue this any longer, White Flashy. 03:12, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ. I only repeat myself when users such as yourself couldn't understand my message or just blinded by their self righteousness *cough Omega*cough. I could just post tons of links of Glass Heart's and Remant's abusing their rights if it's okay for Staff. Unless Omega wants to put up another petty story about me.--White Flash (Contact) 03:18, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Don't you know how to read English? "I beg to differ" plays no role here. Jezz. Clam down already, and wait for the final verdict. 03:22, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Still trying to antagonize me Omega, it will get you no where. Do you just argue for the sake of arguing?--White Flash (Contact) 03:25, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

"Do you just argue for the sake of arguing?" That's big, coming from you. Maybe I'll stop here before you keep embarrassing yourself further. Here ya go. 03:31, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh no please continue /popcorn. Your petty accusations, antagonizing, insulting comments amuses me.--White Flash (Contact) 03:33, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

"insulting comments amuses me" That's ironic coming from somebody who called Glass an Neo-Nazi. SeaTerror (talk) 03:39, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well, all I have left to say to you is this, White Flashy:

Learn to hear what others have to say, and accept criticism. I hope this is the last time I encounter someone like you, hopefully. Enjoy the popcorn, maybe that will distract you. Thank you staff for listening to my thoughts on this issue, greatly appreciated. And trust me, Glass and Rem will make this wiki flourish in no time at all. Well said, SeaTerror Fella. 03:41, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * \o/ looky at that random person walks in (who i just somehow know isn't gonna be a regular editor...), makes a poinltess comment, less than 5 minuntes actually comes back to the discussion supporting another meat puppet? wow. I mean what coincidence.--White Flash (Contact) 03:44, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I already told you there are no meatpuppets. Just check that image I posted earlier. That's a meatpuppet. SeaTerror (talk) 04:13, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

To Staff members
As what Omega couldn't do, actually brings up evidence to support him. I strongly advise you not to listen to his words. Here are some links of Glass Heart and Remant13 abusing their admin rights. Here's something that two meat puppets never really did notice, (mostly because their ego is as big as their heads) but none of my messages include me wanted to have my admin/bureaucrat rights to be obtain. If I know I had to deal with the most belligerent, arrogant, pestering, overinflated, self righteous, and whinning, bratty, annoying users. I most certainly do not want to have a headache or stress from them. Obviously, I don't like either one of them, in all of the three years I spent on Wikia, these users are without a doubt the most difficult users to work with. However, I also strongly recommend you to grant User:Speysider and User:UltimateSupreme to have admin/bureaucrat rights. I can assure these users can most definitely be trusted with handling these rights, especially User:UltimateSupreme. He's very good user that helps others as I witness in the Community Central forums, he too administrates popular Wikis so he has experiences with them. User:Speysider is very nice and cooperative, he's very knowledgeable when it comes to dealing with images and copyright.
 * Here is when Glass Heart (not even an admin) intentionally reverted another user's edit all because she claimed it was junk trivia, (matter of fact there wasn't anything in the policy that said anything about junk trivia) She made this rule by herself. Not by a community consensus even after that user and myself had no problem with it.
 * Then came the rule of "not uploading duplicate images" Glass Heart broke that policy, she uploaded images of "better quality" instead of uploading a newer version of that image, here are some images (that were already uloaded) she deleted:
 * File:Kuroh and Yashiro2.png→File:YashiroTeasingKuroh.png
 * File:Kuroh and Kukuri.jpg→File:KurohBowsBeforeKukuri.png
 * File:Reisi and Kuroh.jpg→File:Munakata vs Yatogami.png
 * File:Yata fighting.jpg→File:YataFightingSkills.png
 * File:Eric thanking towards Kamamoto.jpg→File:EricEatingFishCracker.png
 * File:Fushimi's Homura tattoo.jpg→File:Saruhiko Fushimi Tattoo.png
 * She along with Remant13 deleted images and templates that were beneficial to K Project Wiki (I restored them).
 * Template:ImageWarn→Being use to warn a user for violating a policy.
 * Template:PolicyRemind→To remind a user of a policy they broke.
 * File:Favicon.png→Being use for a Animanga Spotlight.
 * Glass Heart reverted a user's edits who was trying to help.
 * Here, when UltimateSupreme was trying to fix some CSS.

The others, User:Ultraprime2 User:Omega natsu2 User:Rifatmfarid User:Osuras are friends of Glass Heart and Remant13, so they all gather together and try to help Glass Heart in anyway they can. An example of that would be all of them trying to get User:StarCrossedWonderland to have her rights removed for NO REASONS whatsoever. Glass Heart even admitted herself, she "shows no respect for her". If you were the founder of a Wiki and some users try to overthrow you and shows little respect for you, how would you feel? After reading my waste of a breath discussion with Opreggy and SeaBiscuits, they've just insulted me left and right, more focusing on me rather than a new admin. I guarantee that once Glass Heart will have her rights back she will rule this Wiki with nothing but dictatorship, then when she plays democracy she'll gather her band of users to support her. Basically, all of them show little respect for any users, the only respect they can give is just to themselves.

In conclusion, I still stand by my point. Glass Heart will become the sole arbiter of K Project Wiki. I do not have the slightest intentions of having my rights back though, I'm more concerns of a new admin who actually learns to compromise. And by the way K Project Wiki:Policy, section 5 "Please Respect Neutrality." I'm going to be honest, I along with Glass Heart and Remant13 have broken this rule. That's a plus on another reason why neither one of us should have rights. UltimateSupreme and Speysider have NOT break any of the policies here.

--White Flash (Contact) 05:42, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not here to start an argument. I'm just here to inform users that Glass Heart and Osuras can't edit thus can't participate in this discussion, apparently their IPs are still blocked for some reason. Whether Ultraprime2 and Rifatmfarid can edit are currently unknown.

My original IP is auto-blocked as well, so I'm leaving this message with my phone. A list of blocked users can be seen here, if this helps.

07:31, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well, my IP address has finally been unblocked. Guess it's time to put down my thoughts on some particular things, which weren't already summarized by other users.

White Flash
 * There was no community consensus on that. We did not have 3 active users here at that time to conclude that it wasn't junk trivia by everyone else. Herald of meridian dropped the issue. He relented that it was junk trivia and our discussion was over, only you decided to prolong it just between the two of us, making it a one-on-one debate then. Had the other user still continued, then perhaps things would have resulted differently.


 * Firstly, those non-existent image links that you provided broke numerous rules in our Image Policy. There was no fair use rationale, no license, low quality, and a poor filename for most (such as [[File:Kuroh and Yashiro2.png]]). And I'll have you know that most of the image comparisons that you linked were .jpg against .png. I can't upload a high quality .png over a .jpg. I believe we are both aware of that. Moreover, my images were not technically duplicates seeing as there have been obvious differences between these files. I presume you looked at them both. You should know that they are not the same and can qualify as being identical. I am aware of the Image Policy so I should know what are the rules. After all, I was the one who wrote them for the K-Project Wiki, something you know fully well, White Flash, as you were the one who checked over what I wrote for the policies and guidelines and had little issue with. Some of those images that you linked were deleted by me, amongst over a hundred others. Now, all of those images were in violation of the Image Policy. Including the ones that I have already listed above, they had no article use. Moreover, they were all tagged for deletion. So, for deleting junk on the wiki that were violating policies, that makes me a bad administrator who abuses her user rights. That is quite a messed up way of looking at things, White Flash. Let me also add that you refused to delete any of that despite the policy violations found in just about all of them. You really shouldn't accuse me of something that I did nothing wrong about. Also, those templates, several of them have been on this wiki for months prior to you giving Remnant and myself administrative user rights. This includes the ImageWarn and PolicyRemind. An unused template has as much use as a non-existent one so I believed that they should be deleted. Remnant13 as well. Moreover, warning users about breaking policies can be easily dealt with by a user who is well-informed of them, so having them on the wiki was very pointless anyway. Other templates that Remnant13 primarily deleted was mostly others that served no use on the wiki, evident by the fact that they have been unused for months prior, include documentation templates. The Favicon.png file, frankly, I don't see why it is needed for the Animanga Spotlight. You can simply upload it there and use the file from that wiki. This image has no use here. We have the [[File:Favicon.ico]] to use.


 * Without that, then the Picture Attribution Removal CSS does not work. You would see who uploads a particular image on articles should they be in thumbnail format. Had UltimateSupreme "fixed" the issue correctly, then I wouldn't have had to revert his edit twice. If you see the MediaWiki history and test out the CSS that I had to revert twice, without my particular revert or UltimateSupreme's final version of it, then you would see that it does not fix anything.


 * Insulting us all like that and accusing some for things that you have no evidence on, nor any reason to accuse them for, shows perfectly as to why you needed to have your user rights removed, White Flash.


 * Given how Speysider has acted here, I strongly oppose re-admitting his user rights. He creates unneeded templates and restores previously deleted ones that, as said above, were evidently unneeded and unnecessary here. He is not "nice" nor is he rather "cooperative" from personal experiences with him, from me and from other users. Threatening to block users, when he was only given an option to just hours prior, simply in an attempt to have us stop disagreeing with him over something, does not show that he is "nice". Several users here are knowledgeable about images and copyright statuses so that is not a very significant reason to re-grant his user rights, especially when he has contributed to this wiki in very little amounts. As for UltimateSupreme, he was only given his administrative user rights temporarily, so that he can assist you and Speysider with the templates and CSS for the wiki, when there was not anything really that he did which improved the site. Moreover, in addition to having minor edits of significant quality, he has not shown that he is interested in this wiki to care about its activities. His absences in the past few days during the most recent forums is a strong example of that. I am aware that he is not inactive or busy so that claim cannot be supported to back him up in this case.


 * StarCrossedWonderland's user rights were removed for inactivity (main reason) and minor violation of the Image Policy (minor reason). White Flash, had you been reading what I said carefully, or if you remembered enough, you would know that I said that I do respect our Founder for creating the wiki but I cannot respect her any more than that seeing as she is not dedicated enough to the wiki. Yes, she is busy in real life, but the fact that she has not even visited this wiki since October 26 of last year shows it.


 * Omega natsu2, not Opreggy, gave his vote for Remnant13 and myself as administrators and bureaucrats for the wiki, didn't you see? His further responses to you, White Flash, were to back up his reasons why and to explain them more thoroughly to you. When you started to get personal about this matter and derail both of you from the main purpose of the forum, then Omega natsu2 went on to different matters. As for SeaTerror, not SeaBiscuits, he didn't insult you. In any way here, he did not insult you directly. All he has done on this forum is point out what a meat puppet is and how he believes it is ironic of you to say that "insulting comments" amuse you, when you clearly said that my contributions to this wiki identified me as being a "neo-Nazi". I don't see how expressing his opinions towards you is the same as insulting you. But to be honest, you do seem to take just about everything as an insult, so I guess I shouldn't have asked such a question. And I'll have you know that they, as well as everyone from the previous forum, have primarily been neutral and courteous to others. How could that indicate that they respect only themselves? On Omega's part, I believe the only type of disrespect that he could give you that is more personal-opinionated than factual is repeatedly referring to you as "White Flashy". Now, it is a harmless play on your username. Unlike "Opreggy" and "SeaBiscuits" which do not indicate friendliness. Frankly, Omega did not have to listen to your words about not being calling "White Flashy" given how, as he himself has stated, you repeatedly referred to myself as "Glassy", a harmless play on my name I'll admit but still annoying nonetheless, when I obviously had a disdain for it.


 * Your comments about me are really unnecessary now, White Flash. Giving me all this disrespect when I have done little wrong, something I have pointed out numerous times to you already in very blunt ways, can not be any more pitiful on your part.


 * So, you're looking for a new administrator that is not in any way like you? Well, that is quite a superb change of heart about this matter, coming from your own words.


 * Remnant and I have been quite neutral in all of this, especially the former, given how he has not said much in all of this yet retained a pleasant manner. As for myself, I've been courteous and as calm as I could be. We both have been respecting neutrality and that rule, similarly.

Now, cutting it all short, I would strongly recommend Remnant13 for administrative and bureaucrat user rights. His contributions and wide range of expertise in different fields should be obvious reasons. Moreover, he is respectful and dedicated to the wiki, as well as capable of the position. I understand that he does not want the position, however, but he damn well deserves it. In the case that it is ultimately chosen that he won't be an administrator/bureaucrat, then I nominate myself for both user rights. I believe that I have similar qualifications for like Remnant13 and I don't believe that there are others yet who also qualify.


 * Nevertheless, calling me "White Flashy" is insulting". Omega came to this forum incivility by attacking me. Glass Heart, I try to show respect to you. If I didn't I wouldn't:
 * Allow you to have images galleries
 * Give up my support of not having .gifs here.
 * Try my best to disabled the visual editor
 * Now then lets see:
 * Had the other user still continued, then perhaps things would have resulted differently" No it wouldn't. You would still put up a petty fuss until you've won.
 * There was nothing wrong with .jpegs. You just wanted uploaded a image of better quality for your own sake. Could it be the reason there were 200 images marked for deletion is that you were to blindly to ignore the template so that's why I could've been spared from deleting tons of images. Saying how this Wiki doesn't need a Animanga spotlight is literally obnoxious of you. Here we go again with you being the arbiter.
 * "I insulted and accuse you" Quite hypocritical of you. Need I remind you of your other baseless accusations of me? Saying how User:DestroyerBDT17 is a sockpuppet of me. Which is why your rights were removed too.
 * My comments about you are necessary. It'll show Staff your true nature here
 * "So, you're looking for a new administrator that is not in any way like you?" So long as the new admin isn't like you nor is your friend Glass Heart.
 * Now you're nominating yourself.
 * "but I cannot respect her any more than that seeing as she is not dedicated enough to the wiki." You seriously have ego issues. You need psychiatric help.
 * You seriously don't know UlitimateSupreme and Speysider well enough. You only know them here where they're trying to be helpful, but somehow bad guys in your own little world.
 * You were not courteous or calm. Didn't you read my post about your opinion of junk trivia? A courteous or calm person would've compromise.
 * You cannot be this ignorant Glass Heart, when are you going to realize the world does not revolve around you? You're trying to change the whole picture, by making Speysider and UltimateSupreme the bad guys. You know there's a difference between you and me, unlike you I admit my own mistakes, you just put some random BS excuse to save your own skin. You do not deserves those rights.--White Flash (Contact) 09:20, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Always good to have someone who actually admits when they're wrong unlike other people who cover up their tracks in a thirst for power but, that's just my assumption.
 * " I understand that he does not want the position, however, but he damn well deserves it. In the case that it is ultimately chosen that he won't be an administrator/bureaucrat, then I nominate myself for both user rights." That's interesting, what it boils down to is you nominating yourself for both rights as someone who doesn't want it is highly likely to refuse as you probably already know. It's also interesting that you go out of your way to take down every last admin / bureaucrat as opposed to just the person you have an issue with and everyone knows what happens when there aren't any admins or bureaucrats.
 * "Saying how User:DestroyerBDT17 is a sockpuppet of me." Very unlikely, if that user was a sockpuppet then, there's a very high chance that White Flash would have voted oppose on himself with it as opposed to the user only voting oppose on Speysider so, it appears that they may be having differing opinions from many of the people here.
 * It would actually be interesting, if UltimateSupreme was to join the discussion in order to drop in his 2c on the whole situation as he appears to be under represented alot here and as such we have no idea what his words on what's going on are.Azareal (talk) 13:36, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Glass Heart, you are making a very baseless accusation. Undeleting templates which were deleted for no reason whatsoever is not power abuse. You are making me out to be some bad person based on a few templates. The templates which I created or undeleted have a purpose here, but you can't see the reasoning for them. How are any of these templates useless ? Heck, you even had references to deleted but Tlx is superior to  because Tlx provides support for templates which are included by substitution, but T does not. I even updated your template because it contained issues and did not allow for tagging pages for quick deletion and everything had to be in a defined order (you couldn't skip putting in a reason for example). Basically, all the changes I've done is not power abuse, but you and whoever else who constantly went on deletion wars were abusing their position. Like the deletion log page states:
 * is a template intended to make it easier to send policy violation reminders to users by using a preformatted message with a parameter which allows you to include your own message. I created this template on another wiki and it's used quite a lot there and it simply makes your job easier. is the same but for the second violation.
 * is a template intended to alert a user that they have violated the Image policy (it's very specific to images) by warning them the image they uploaded was tagged for deletion and that they should review the issues and rectify them.
 * is used to provide preformatted deletion reasons. It makes your job easier in many ways by you just needing to do if you wanted people to go to the article's talkpage for the reasoning for tagging the page for deletion.

"If you don't agree with a deletion or think that a page was valid content, contact the administrator who deleted it."

At no time did any single person who kept restoring deleted pages/templates ever go to the administrator/bureaucrat who deleted the page/template, asking why. Instead, you abused your position by starting deletion and restoration wars for no reason, when you were told many times to use talkpages (and even if you did, you did not speak in a civil manner to the user). Heck, there was one person on the wiki who wasn't an admin or crat who started a deletion tag war by continually reverting my edits which removed inappropriate addition of the delete template on pages because he did not see a reason for the template. Even in a case of simple redirects to policies like Image policy were constantly deleted and restored because the admin who kept deleting the redirect felt them pointless. Redirects exist to save you remembering a namespace and almost every single wiki employs redirects to policies. I agree with White Flash and Azareal on everything they've stated so far. --Speysider Talk Page 14:34, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

15:47, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Did you even read Glass Heart's comments properly, Speysider? The templates that created and restored are "unnecessary and unneeded". Deleting "unused" templates is not an abuse of administrator rights. I marked those pages/templates for deletion because they are not going to be used on the wiki, and the redirects you were made on the main namespace to the Policy pages were unnecessary. The reason why I didn't use the talk page to discuss with you, Speysider, about why I marked the pages for delete because you are just some random user who leaves a "welcome message" to White Flash and he made you an administrator/bureaucrat, five hours after you joined the wiki. You threatened Glass Heart to take her administrator rights away and block her. Also, you used the rollback option to continuously revert my edits without giving a reason, while I wrote my reasons in the edit summary, if you didn't notice.


 * "I marked those pages/templates for deletion because they are not going to be used on the wiki"
 * Who died and made you the arbitrator of what templates are going to be used here ? It's not up to you to decide that "they will not be used".
 * "and the redirects you were made on the main namespace to the Policy pages were unnecessary."
 * How is making a redirect to K Project Wiki:Image Policy unnecessary ? Typing Image policy is much better than typing up K Project Wiki:Image Policy and redirects are there for a reason. Basically, you are proving to everyone here that you want the wiki run your way and you'll have anything deleted that goes against the way you want it run. If you want that, then make your own wiki: don't do it here. --Speysider Talk Page 16:31, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

As to the redirect, while it seems easier, I'd think that putting a redirect to a project page into the mainspace is not something that should be done. The mainspace is for articles and article redirects. Just my thoughts on those.
 * While templates like the Image warning are useful on larger wikis with more contributors, on a wiki like this, where there are relatively few, it's my opinion that they're not needed. There are relatively few policy violators here. In these beginning stages, writing out a personalized message is preferable in all honesty.

Oh, White Flash, as to your claim about "none of (your) messages include (you) wanted to have (your) admin/bureaucrat rights to be obtain", I would say that this here effectively disproves that. You did indeed want admin rights on this wiki. Long before any other users came here, in fact.

Since this forum is about choosing a new direction for the wiki, I will post my views.

for the bureaucrat and administrator rights. They are the two most active users on this wiki, the writer of most content and designer of most code, respectively and experienced enough to adequately handle this wiki in a mature manner. For months now, they've proven to be the most dedicated users here and knowledgeable enough in the series to make responsible decisions in regards to content and what should be allowed on the wiki.

for any rights.


 * 1) I oppose White Flash primarily on the grounds of his conduct. Locking forums, deleting them and blocking other users for disagreeing with him is horrible conduct for an administrator. It is clear to me White Flash intends to run this wiki contrary to Wikia principles and contrary to democracy. His behavior on a personal level is unbelievably poor. Calling people "asshole", "useless" and "neo nazi" is intolerable. He's never apologized for those remarks and I doubt that, even if he did, those offended would forgive him. In addition, he has done relatively few content edits on this wiki when compared to Glass Heart and Remnant13 and I do not feel his judgement as to editing is as good as theirs. Since he does not appear to want rights on this wiki, I don't think this should be much of a problem.
 * 2) Speysider seems to strongly believe, as can be seen here, that it is somehow "defiance" and "insubordinate" to delete or undo the contributions of a bureaucrat. A bureaucrat, like an admin, is not above regular users. Their tools are for the benefit of the wiki. Regular users are not subordinates of bureaucrats, nor is the latter "authority". If a bureaucrat makes a bad edit or unneeded one, it should be undone. Having the bureaucrat right does not mean that they are immune from anything. During the conversations of the original forum, Speysider removed my chat moderator rights as well as Glass Heart's administrator rights while the forum was in progress. I think this clearly shows his retaliation attempts for what he saw as a "pointless forum" and demonstrates his immaturity. It's clear to me he should not be given user rights here of any kind as I don't believe he is trustworthy with them given his conduct and ideals. Furthermore, he was not active as an editor prior to getting his rights the first time and has not been particularly active on articles since then. His attempts to enforce new templates are simply an over-complication. They're fine on other places but what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all, if any other. As such, I oppose user rights being issued to him.
 * 3) As to UltimateSupreme, while he has not been abusive when compared to White Flash or Speysider, I believe he has not been active enough in editing this wiki to deserve user rights. While he is a good coder, it's my opinion that users who have user rights should be sufficiently familiar with the content so they can recognize what edits are bad and/or unneeded. UltimateSupreme does not edit the content nor has he shown much (not to say that he has no) interest in K, the topic of the wiki, and as such, I believe he should not be given user rights here.

I strongly believe this wiki will be successful with Glass Heart and Remnant13 in the positions of administrator and bureaucrat. They are primarily responsible for the good state its content and design is in. The two work together fine and Glass Heart is a responsible individual who would never block users over disagreements, as White Flash blatantly did. While it did seem earlier on that Remnant13 didn't want rights, I'm not sure how he feels at this moment. I think he would also be a good person to have those rights and I would be quite happy with either of them in those positions as opposed to White Flash, Speysider or UltimateSupreme.

In addition, there was mention of "determining community guidelines for these sorts of events". I have no particular idea when this should be discussed as we currently are talking about new user rights. As such, I'll be holding off on suggestions about this until later.


 * Once again Ultraprime, you're in denial and ignoring my message, trying to make Speysider and UlitmateSupreme the bad guys, you seriously need to stop putting up accusations just like Glass, Omega did. That's petty. You're only supporting Glass Heart all because she's your friend.
 * UlitmateSupreme is very intended of editing here at K Project Wiki. He's very skilled with CSS and JS, he studies it everyday. As far as I can tell about Glass Heart and Remant13, they just copy codings from other wikis.
 * Speysider did NOT abuse his rights. The so called "threat" he gave to Glass Heart was necessary because Glass Heart continuously deleted templates after she was warn not to. Stop trying put the littlest of things against him.
 * Of course I did wanted to become an admin here, then when you and Glass Heart and others show up, it made my wiki days here a headache. Like I said Ultraprime, actually read my message.--White Flash (Contact) 17:40, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Let me give my opinions for the user rights. for the bureaucrat and administrator rights. rights.
 * 1) Glass Heart and Remnant are both friendly and trusted users. Both of them have far more greater quailty and quantity edits in the wiki. Glass Heart is knowledgeable about series and has worked on most of the contents on the wiki. She is the most active user of this wiki and kept speculative information away from the articles. Glass Heart keeps the articles grammatically correct and referenced so that readers can understand the plot of the story without having much problem. Remnant13 is greatly experienced with codes and has made most of the templates, designed and improved them, and he is experienced with the MediaWiki as well. He reverted vandalisms and spams from articles which were mostly done by anonymous users. Even though Remnant13 doesn't want any rights, him being an administrator is the best I know.

for the bureaucrat rights.
 * 1) I oppose White Flash because of his behavior to the users. He calls people by names as calling them "neo nazi", "useless", "asshole" and also telling them that they are in an "imaginary world". He makes rash decisions and abused his powers by locking Forums during active discussions, but deleting them and blocking users that were against him is a "serious" abuse. For this actions, White Flash can't have "any" rights.
 * 2) Speysider should not be given bureaucrat and administrator rights because he argues with users and reverts their edits when they are not vandalism and continuously using the rollback option is an abuse of user rights. He created and restored deleted templates which are of no use to the wiki. As seen, Speysider removed the Chat moderator rights from Ultraprime2 during an active discussion in the Forum and also deleted it. As for these reasons, Speysider should not be given bureaucrat and administrator rights.
 * 3) UltimateSupreme is not an active user of this wiki and neither he isn't interested about the series, so giving him the user rights would be pointless. For this reason, I oppose UltimateSupreme for the bureaucrat and administrator rights. 20:00, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * "because he argues with users"
 * Provide proof, otherwise it's a baseless accusation.
 * and reverts their edits when they are not vandalism</blockquote?
 * Provide proof, otherwise it's just another baseless accusation.
 * "and continuously using the rollback option is an abuse of user rights."
 * No it isn't.
 * "He created and restored deleted templates which are of no use to the wiki."
 * That's an opinion. Like I told someone above: who died and made you the arbitrator of what templates can be allowed on this wiki ? It's not up to you to decide if a template belongs here or not and it's not up to anyone to decide that a template is useless without any real reason provided.
 * "As seen, Speysider removed the Chat moderator rights from Ultraprime2 during an active discussion"
 * Like I have said, his rights were removed because the chatbox was disabled. There is no point in someone keeping the status of Chat Mod if there is no Chatbox system in place.
 * Everything you have provided are not real reasons to keep someone from being promoted. You have provided ZERO evidence to back up your claims. The supposed "threat" to Glass Heart was not a threat, but a warning because she kept up a deletion/restoration war, which IS an abuse of the status of sysop (you don't get your own way just by continually deleting a template which was restored by another user, citing "this is a useless template and I'm going to keep deleting it until you stop". Like WF said, stop looking for stupid reasons to prevent someone from being promoted to a crat. Provide REAL evidence or your not going to be listened to. --Speysider Talk Page 20:10, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Tone and Constructive Building
There has been a good deal of back and forth. I would like to remind everyone that each user should be treated with respect, no matter how much you might disagree with their point of view. Let's keep things civil and focused on what this community will be doing as it moves foreward. I would like to see more people nominating themselves and others and an open discussion. Maybe there need to be minimum number of edits, maybe there needs to be a straight up vote before user rights are granted. These are all valid approaches, and this unfortunate situation can turn into a great opportunity to clear the cobwebs and design the leadership procedures for future users. Please keep that in mind as the discussion continues and builds toward community consensus. --semanticdrifter (help forum | blog) 20:20, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * A straight up vote will not work, as the result will just be obvious without even doing the vote. My 2c. --Speysider Talk Page 20:21, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Per your orders, My votes still stay.

Bureaucrats and Admin rights to Glass Heart & Remnant13.

No rights to UltimateSupreme, Speysider and White Flash.

Thank you for preventing this to be prolonged any further, semanticdrifter. 20:28, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

If we're going to vote, that would mean a bunch of meatpuppets such as Omega, SeaTerror, Osuras will vote on Glass Heart's side. That is NOT democracy. I still stand by my decision that User:UltimateSupreme and User:Speysider should have admin/bureaucrat rights. I can easily predict the next message from Glass Heart's supporters they're going to repeat themselves over and over again regardless of the evidence I provided or say some random BS excuse.--White Flash (Contact) 20:32, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * They haven't abuse their rights
 * Both actually learn how to compromise.
 * Very good contributors on other wikis, and they have intentions of editing here.
 * They provided great help here.

White Flash, Staff is able to see if accounts are sockpuppets or not. Ask them go ahead and tell you if I am a sock, and then tell me what they tell you. Secondly, they said to move straight to the voting, you've already given your reasons above. So please stop whining and proceed to the requested order. 20:37, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * ^ taking words out of context. He said maybe. That does NOT mean "do it". Stop jumping to conclusions and assumptions. --Speysider Talk Page 20:39, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Said by one who doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between sockpuppets and meatpuppets. There's a significant difference between the two, with sockpuppets it's possible to check IPs and so forth as it's the same person however, meatpuppets are seperate people who are brought in for the sole purpose of boosting someone's position. Azareal (talk) 23:38, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your time, Staff. ^_^ 20:40, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

This bantering has been going on for far too long. Last time I checked, this was the K-project wiki. You know, a database. As opposed to useful and productive edits, The Wiki Activity page is full of disrespectful retorts from one user to another. If a vote is what is needed to end this, then by all means:

Bureaucrat/ Admin Rights to Glass Heart & Remnant13.

-User:Umnei 20:44, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not whining, what I said is true and it's happening. And for the love that is good and holy read my message, I don't intend to have any rights. Nevertheless here's my vote --White Flash (Contact) 20:46, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Strongly Glass Heart and Remant13 for rights
 * Strongly UlitmateSupreme and Speysider for rights


 * Please do not accuse any users of being sockpuppets, White Flash. 20:48, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

My votes goes to:

Glass Heart & Remnant13 to bureaucrat and administrator rights.

White Flash Speysider & UltimateSupreme to No rights.

20:48, February 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * ^ Stop repeating yourself and stop being biased. It's so obvious you aren't being neutral whatsoever when you give your vote. --Speysider Talk Page 20:49, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I've said more than enough on my part. I explained why some users deserve their user rights and why others do not, both on this forum and on the previous. Moreover, my most specific messages are not reaching out to those whom they are intended to, so I won't say anything else to them. Anything they have to say to me about my decision in this matter will simply be irrelevant, personally, seeing as we all have said what we wanted over and over again. I stand by my decision.
 * Remnant13 as administrator/bureaucrat. Myself, as a secondary candidate.
 * White Flash, Speysider, and UltimateSupreme deserve none.


 * Your decision is biased. The staff member said maybe on a vote.--White Flash (Contact) 21:02, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * It is not biased when I have explained myself immensely on this forum and on the previous forum, as I have already said. You voted yourself for this case so it does not matter now that I did as well, White Flash.
 * Quite frankly all votes here including my own is biased. Your explanation nothing but you repeating yourself.--White Flash (Contact) 21:09, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Like I said, this vote is pointless. It is 100% biased and everyone here knows it. --Speysider Talk Page 21:12, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Like I said, this vote is pointless. It is 100% biased and everyone here knows it. --Speysider Talk Page 21:12, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

To be fair, I don't think there are any other methods left to resolving this... We might as well rename this wiki because it'll just become a User Talk battleground unless something was done about it. I'm just very disappointed in everyone right now, since it escalated to a point that could have easily been avoided. All the Users involved in all this bickering all have the ability to be productive and contribute greatly, but unfortunately, so much of their time and effort is being utilized into something like this. I'd love to see a proposition from a party that doesn't receive a negative retort. -User:Umnei

Voting is a one way ticket for Glass Heart and Remant13 to have rights, it's not fair which is why Glass Heart and her supporters started to vote. In my view if we're going to decided to have a new Admin/Bureacrat we should look at a user (who had admin rights) actions. I along with Glass Heart, Remant13 cannot be trusted enough with these rights. That being said UltimateSupreme and Speysider should have bureaucrat/admin rights. Not a single edit in their contributions shows them abusing their rights. I'm guessing the Glass Heart supporters never really did read my message so they're going to repeat themselves over and over again by putting up a highly baseless accusations on them.--White Flash (Contact) 21:33, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * I may have deleted/protected forums but I have the courage to say that.
 * Remant13 and Glass Heart deleted templates/images that were beneficial to K Project Wiki. Then they put some BS excuse to save their own skin. They never did admitted their own mistake.

I understand where you are coming from, and I also see what Glass and Rem are talking about. Unfortunately, the arguments just blew up like a kettle of water over heat, to the extent that voting was suggested. Aside from what I've typed earlier, I can offer up my vote on why I would want Glass to attain the rights, in a non-bias manner.

Look at this wiki in two different scenarios. 1) K-project wiki with UltimateSupreme and Speysider's contributions completely diminished. 2) K-project wiki with GlassHeart and Remnant13's contributions completely diminished.

Which one would have the greater impact? :/ Keep in mind, contributions are composed by the time and effort put upon by the user, and the edits made are to situate to the reader's experience on this database. It's not like we are editing for ourselves, anyways, so if some images were replaced/re-uploaded whatnot, as long as the main content/purpose of the edit was not affected, the reader would not be deprived of any information offered by the database.

That's pretty much it, I can think of more but I just want this to end. Best of luck to the K-project wiki.

-User:Umnei 21:50, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * But how did they handle their rights? Not too good to be honest, deleting images and templates without notifying me. Glass Heart and Remant13 contributions for a position as admin/bureaucrat is irrelevant. They can still help build the Wiki, in fact they've both build the Wiki without needing admin rights, the only time they needed me is when there were vandals, pages marked for deletion and CSS/JS stuff and that was it. I have a feeling that Glass Heart believes that once Speysider and UltimateSupreme will have rights they're going to "attack" her, which isn't true nor is to going to happened so she's completely paranoid on this discussion she decided to gather any users she know to support her in having admin rights.--White Flash (Contact) 22:04, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry but again, I'm very disappointed in everyone's conduct. That includes the messages being sent back and forth, some of which were sent by UltimateSupreme and Speysider. So, everyone was indeed "attacking" one another. The point I was emphasizing earlier was an attempt to look past the parties' conduct and just focus on the raw details we have, which is really just the contributions. It may not be agreeable by all but it's best for the "reader", which is kind of the point of creating a Wiki

P.S When I mention points like "I'm very disappointed in ___".. I don't consider myself hot s**t lol I'm just stating my point of view as an editor, a user and a fellow wikian.

-User:Umnei


 * Looking at raw statistics is fairly irrelevant in a situation where neither side trusts the other and thinks that the other side would make a real mess, if they were to succeed. If there's no trust then, it's unlikely that either side would back down. Trust is probably one of the most important factors. Azareal (talk) 23:48, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * UltimateSupreme and Speysider are most definitely trusted users, and yet the supporters of Glass Heart and Remant13(who doesn't even want to be an admin) believes the two of them are going to "target" them.--White Flash (Contact) 02:17, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, you need to understand and learn a few points: Now coming to the main points, though the templates created by Speysider were unneccessary for now they may be useful in the future. And hell even if not, there is no need to get the wiki rid of all unused templates. It doesnot hurt to have unused templates (especially if their deletions cause so much of issue).
 * Assume Good Faith
 * Use Common sense

Coming to the sysop issue, Sysop is a tool, a series of rights that let you do some things to the wiki an average user can't do. They are not a status symbol. A sysop doesn't get to end a discussion with a result against consensus. A sysop doesn't get to make the wiki rules alone. Having sysop doesn't give any more authority to a user than a user without it. And different users get sysop for different purposes. Sysops have no more weight in discussions than normal users. No-one gets to interject and decide something without a proper rationale that anyone could provide.

Sysop has nothing to do with the number of edits a user has made, how long they have been on the wiki, or simply alone because they're sysop elsewhere, it's not some thing you earn in any way as some prize you get after achieving certain things on the wiki. And no-one gets sysop because someone thinks that they 'deserve' it. There have been and will continue to be users making lots of great edits to the wiki who still Rnever have a reason to be given a sysop flag during the entire time they are editing here.~ Ultimate  Supreme  08:24, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Well, traits such as "trustworthy" and "good faith" would be greatly appreciated but you all argued your heads off. That is why ive compared raw statiatics. Plus, I still don't see a sensible method to close all this discussion without retorting one another. I will be washing my hands off this, but instead of arguing with one another and expressing each others "trust" and "faith" etc, think of what is best for the reader and not just your own K-project wiki community.

P.S due to all the arguing, whoever gets the rights better talk the talk and benefit the wiki to its epitome, or else all your arguing will be in vain. Ive seen some wikis have admins come in and out and just end up "bored". If you end up "bored" and leave, you will just end up embarrassing yourself. This goes for everyone (Glass Heart, Remnant, Speysider & UltimateSupreme) -Good Luck. I'll try not to reply here anymore.

-User:Umnei

I'm not going to vote here quite yet. I've done it above but it seems we aren't at that stage yet and need to suggest a structure of sorts in regards to deciding on votes since no official requirement is set yet. I have no hard specifications to what would make someone eligible to vote at this moment, but I think that I'll see what Semanticdrifter says on that. Given how things are, it seems clear not everyone will agree on things and so perhaps having him decide on a requirement and us accepting it might be best. I'm sure that he won't set any kind of unreasonable requirement. If he feels it's best to leave that to the community, as it may well be, then I think people can come up with suggestions and decide together which is best.

Also, Remnant13 has not yet given his views on him getting user rights. Let us wait before assuming that he either does or doesn't want them. What his feelings in the past may have been aren't so much an indication of how he would feel on this day. Let's let him say something on that matter.

You should just do an official voting system like how it's done on OP wikia. SeaTerror (talk) 03:43, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

At first I was neutral about getting admin rights for personal reasons though I think if Glass and I become admins, we can work together well. So now I nominate myself for administrator. My main reason is I can handle MediaWiki.css pages. Specifically designs for both Oasis and Monobook skins. I got nothing else to say expect for, I'll just let the community decide on what they think is right.

@SeaTerror: A vote is out of the question, quite bringing up Wikis that have nothing to do here. You're literally biased here in this discussion.

How about this. Speysider and UlitmateSupreme can have Bureaucrat/Admin rights and then they could make Remant13 and Glass Heart only admins, not bureaucrat. Frankly with the two of them deleting images and templates intentionally that does serve as a significant use to the Wiki, they should be watch upon on and that's what Speysider and UlitmateSupreme can do.--White Flash (Contact) 06:18, February 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would have to oppose this idea. From what's been shown extensively already, both Speysider and UltimateSupreme alike have been disfavored as administrators and bureaucrats in contrast to Remnant13 and myself, and frankly I do not believe that none of the people who have voted will be wanting to change their minds about this matter.

Support/Oppose IS a vote. I also don't see how I can literally be biased about something anyway. The word biased is literally something you cannot combine with the word literally. SeaTerror (talk) 06:32, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

@SeaTerror: We're not voting. Period.

@Glass Heart: You're just paranoid they might target you or will remove your rights. Like I said they won't so what are still worrying about? Why not compromise for once so that way both sides are happy. --White Flash (Contact) 06:43, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

Too late on that. What do you think the Support and Oppose tags are for? That is a vote. You may not think that is a vote but you would be dead wrong. SeaTerror (talk) 06:51, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Apparently you did not read what the Staff member said. "maybe there needs to be a straight up vote before user rights are granted" Key word Maybe. Then one user went on ahead with his conclusions and assumptions. So the votes here means nothing, whether you like or not.--White Flash (Contact) 06:57, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

The funny thing anyway is how you think that the support and oppose tags are used different than what they actually mean. You also seem to forget one key thing. EVERYBODY was demoted which means in order to fix that there would need to be a vote. Staff wouldn't just promote people randomly. SeaTerror (talk) 07:03, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * A vote wouldn't been fair to both sides. Whether one side is an admin or not, it still doesn't work out like that. Which is why I propose both sides to have admin rights. Is that really to hard for everyone here to agree on? Both sides are actually happy, both of the following candidates Speysider, UltimateSupreme, Remant13 and Glass Heart are admins. Is it that really to hard to compromise?--White Flash (Contact) 07:16, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

I oppose the above proposition of Speysider and UltimateSupreme having bureaucrat/admin rights. I've already given my reasons for that and I'd do it if we voted as well. What I was referring to in my post above on the 12th was a way to decide on who could vote. It seems clear that a vote will have to be done at one point or another. The criteria for voting should be decided on. That's what I believed Semanticdrifter was saying (in the overall tone of his post) so that's why I thought we should leave a requirement to him and see if we can accept it. On the other hand, should he feel we should design a requirement for voting, then we can just make multiple propositions and see what goes over well. And before anyone says "a vote isn't possible"/"that'd be a biased vote", please tell me how we'd solve this otherwise since it seems clear we won't without a vote as discussions haven't worked. 07:51, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay then how about this:
 * Speysider, UlitmateSupreme, Glass Heart, Remant13 will have only admin rights. That's it. A bureaucrat is pointless at this point. 4 active admins is all we need. If we want a Chat mod, Admins can give anyone that right. Rollbacks aren't needed, as vandalism is very rare from here, we could just use the "undo" button.
 * Speysider and UltimaetSupreme can't remove anyone's rights. Glass Heart and Remant13 will not deliberately delete a image or template without a discussion with the other 2 admins, Speysider and UlitmateSupreme. That's the only solution that will make both sides happy. I still believe a vote is not the best way to go.--White Flash (Contact) 08:06, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

Decision
Okay allow me to clarify my last message. A vote of whether only Speysider and UltimateSupreme or only Remant13 and Glass Heart to have admin/bureaucrat rights isn't getting us nowhere, we'll just constantly bicker among ourselves. This discussion need to come to an end, I am sick and tired of it. So how about if everyone votes for all of the four candidates Speysider, UltimateSupreme, Remant13 and Glass Heart to have only admin rights. For the love of all things people, cooperate with this idea. We're both happy knowing that our candidates are admins here, no one will go trigger happy and block people unfairly, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this idea.--White Flash (Contact) 09:02, February 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * We all know we cannot trust anyone with bureaucrat rights. Without a bureaucrat no one will worry who will remove who's rights.
 * If we need a Chat Mod, Admins can have that ability to give a user such rights
 * We don't need a Rollback here. Like I said vandalism here happens very little. You can just always use the "undo button".
 * If we need another admin we could just do a RfA and sent an email to Staff.

Hm putting the 4 Beta fish in the same fish tank... Oh well, I will commemorate you for suggesting this, which shows that you are willing to look right down the line. Plus, I think it's the only suggestion that won't have people reaching for each other's throats anymore. Alright, I'll this, but in addition to that, if any other conflicts do occur, I would like it if any occurances before this decision will not have a role in any future arguments, since those will be just as lengthy. Fresh start is the name of the game. -User:Umnei

I do not know how why this forum is being prolonged. It's been made clear by a majority of the users that Speysider and UltimateSupreme should not get administrative or bureaucrat user rights. Some are evidently in favor of Remnant13 and myself for holding the position. That's been made very clear and final and I sincerely doubt that whatever proposal next comes to mind will change enough users' decisions on the matter. I am still going for the original plan, which was a vote, and I believe the vote should go to hand.


 * You do realize this forum has been going on and on because we're not agreeing anything right? There are others here who would want Speysider and UltimateSupreme to have admin rights. Is it really that hard for you to agree on something that would be beneficial to both sides?--White Flash (Contact) 23:47, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yes. SeaTerror (talk) 01:16, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Then this discussion will go on until you learn to compromise.--White Flash (Contact) 01:22, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

The original plan of voting was better, so I this suggestion since most of the users don't want Speysider and UltimateSupreme to have any user rights. Voting will continue. 01:42, February 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * The "original plan" isn't getting us nowhere. And what "most of the users"?
 * Five users here want Remant13 and Glass Heart to have both admin/bureaucrat rights
 * Five users here want Speysider and UltimateSupreme to have both admin/bureaucrat rights
 * That'll lead a tie. I presented an incredibly solution for both sides to be happy and so far you choose to say no for what reason?--White Flash (Contact) 01:50, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

I don't entirely oppose the idea but if you think both sides will be happy then you're wrong it would pose a problem, this would pretty much put the whole wiki into a deadlock and almost everything would require a discussion/forum even on trivial matters, that simply wont do.

If we ever do a vote it wont end up in a tie. Taking contributions into account.
 * Speysider was given admin rights to look after the wiki while White Flash was away and made no main namespace edits before the right was given.
 * UltimateSupreme was only given temporary rights, he was only instructed to help with css and templates according to the user rights log summary.
 * Azareal and DestroyerBDT17 joined this wiki after this forum was published and made no namespace edits.
 * Mega only uploaded a single image (which was deleted due to low quality) and hasn't made considerable edits.
 * Umnei resized and reuploaded images for consistency. He did it for a favor.

The users who are eligible for voting are Remnant13, Glass Heart, Ultraprime2, Rifatmfarid and White Flash. (4 - 1)

If we disregard contributions it wouldn't end on a tie either. Remnant13, Glass Heart, Ultraprime2, Rifatmfarid, Umnei, Mega, White Flash, Speysider, UltimateSupreme, Azareal and DestroyerBDT17. (6 - 5)


 * Which is why voting for only the two users for admin/burecrat rights isn't fair on the other side. This discussion isn't going to end until all both sides are on agreement and happy. The idea of my proposal is that everyone will learn to cooperate. You're not really opening forums, you can just go to another admin's talkpage and just say "Hey do we need this template? I don't think it's being used?" "Not really, you can delete if you want" simple as that so it's not a big discussion, it's little and easy. I'm sure it cannot be that complicated for anyone to do it.--White Flash (Contact) 07:14, February 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * May I just say, White Flash, that it cannot be considered "unfair" if a majority of users vote for a certain party. That's just how votes work...

Secondly, this is what happens when you guys vote. More arguing. If a staff member said to vote amongst the candidates, sure, but I only see the voting becoming a source of argument, especially if it leads to nothing. Once a staff member mentions a vote, I'll give a singular vote. I thought voting for both parties with equal rights would be right-down-the-line but I see no one is pleased with that idea... Oh well, Eventually, I might even just pull out from voting altogether, seeing as how this has become a never-ending war-zone. For now, I'll be revoking my previous vote, and Best of luck to all... -User:Umnei

Not everything in life will go as how everyone will want it to be. Evidently, many users do not support the possibility of Speysider or UltimateSupreme and, as I already said, it is very unlikely that a majority of people will change their minds and go with this proposal, including myself. I explained my reasons numerous times for not wanting Speysider or UltimateSupreme as administrators or bureaucrats, and I am sticking to them. Of course, if either one proves that he is dedicated to the wiki and can be a responsible, hard-working and just editor here, then I could change my mind. But neither has done so yet. So, my decision stands at no, neither should obtain any special user rights on this wiki.


 * Glass Heart: UltimateSupreme just created a forum about a creating a template that would serve great use to the Wiki and Speysider went ahead to create a few templates such as . That's dedication. They're hard workers. All two of them are responsible to handle such rights so what's there to worry about?
 * Umnei: So a vote is where just only one side is happy not the other. I tried to my best to explain them how wonderful the proposal can be and yet it wasn't good enough for them.--White Flash (Contact) 08:34, February 15, 2013 (UTC)