Forum:Issues to be resolved

This forum has been created to discuss and come to a decision regarding user rights issues surrounding the.

User Rights
As has been seen, there has been a significant amount of argument and talk regarding the user rights issued to various new users. There has been talk about the need for these users to have rights and as such, we will vote on whether or not the users should keep their rights.

All opinions are welcome. Let us resolve this in a civilized manner.

Support

 * 1)  15:52, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Remnant13 16:03,2/9/2013
 * 3) Omega natsu2 16:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) Umnei 16:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Omega natsu2 16:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Umnei 16:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) --Speysider Talk Page 17:17, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) --White Flash (Contact) 17:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) --Azareal (talk) 18:29, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  15:52, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Remnant13 16:03,2/9/2013
 * 3) Omega natsu2 16:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) Umnei 16:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Omega natsu2 16:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Umnei 16:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) --Speysider Talk Page 17:17, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) --White Flash (Contact) 17:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) --Azareal (talk) 18:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) DestroyerBDT17 (talk) 20:28, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Support

 * 1)  15:52, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Remnant13 16:03,2/9/2013
 * 3) Omega natsu2 16:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 4) Umnei 16:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Omega natsu2 16:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) Umnei 16:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) --Speysider Talk Page 17:17, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 2) --White Flash (Contact) 17:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * 3) --Azareal (talk) 18:32, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
Existing users opined that the rights issue was unnecessary and unwarranted and should've been retracted but were promptly shut out by the users who were unwilling to listen. During these arguments, a deal of name-calling and mockery was issued by the two of them, primarily towards Glass Heart. I find the name-calling by the two of them to be extremely childish and unbecoming of essentially any user. Nobody delved to such a low level during these talks besides these two, who effectively had no reason to do such things. Clearly a failure of good communication.

The issuing of administrator and bureaucrat rights to Speysider, on the grounds that White Flash was busy in real life, was not a necessary change in my opinion. The existing administrators of the time were more than capable of looking after the wiki, given their extensive work on it which far surpasses the two users in question. Furthermore, White Flash does not appear to be any less active than before, making me personally wonder about his intentions in the user rights issue.

While UltimateSupreme has not been nearly as disrespectful, I feel that his inclusion as an administrator was premature and unneeded. His work could've been done though communication and as such, I feel he doesn't need to retain his rights.

I believe allowing White Flash, UltimateSupreme and Speysider to keep their administrator (and bureaucrat) rights creates an atmosphere which is not beneficial to the majority of the users on this wiki. Several of them have attitudes which are unbearable, their responses condescending, rude, insulting and childish and their interests obscured by personal vendettas.

Per these reasons, I support the removal of their user rights.


 * I have some specific reasons for all three of you:
 * White Flash
 * Out of the three, you, White Flash, deserve to have your user rights removed the most. All you've really done, that is actually productive from your end, is making minor edits to the articles and uploading images that are typically of low quality. Since the K anime began, with the overall series expanding tremendously, you have done very little. All you have done since is handle administrative tasks that the users on this wiki have either requested you to do or to delete about 1/10 of anything tagged for deletion. With your frequent absences and minimal edits, having your rights removed around the same time as StarCrossedWonderland's would not have been a poor decision, now that I think about it. And in light of your behavior since the opening of that forum, it has slowly been made very clear that your user rights do need to be removed. You have behaved very poorly after StarCrossedWonderland's rights were removed, locking up that forum "until you feel like it", which I understand that you did undo after realizing how childishly you were responding to it. Since, you have given administrative rights to Remnant13 and myself, allowing us both to finally delete everything that you refused to remove and all of your templates, which I am sure were copied from Narutopedia, that have never served use here and evidently never will. And, on top of it all, you made a user an administrator/bureaucrat here, when he has only made his first contributions just hours beforehand. Your reasons are that you are too busy in real life and that you need someone you trust to be a bureaucrat on the wiki; apparently, someone whose work on another wiki and constant visit-only trips around the K-Project Wiki are better reasons to quality, rather than someone who has helped expand this wiki to the state that it is in now, with very little support on your end. Now, while you said that you were busy, in these past few days, you've been a lot more active than before, which makes me believe that you only did all of this so that K-Project Wiki would be so much more like how you wanted and so that you would dishearten most, if not all, of our regular users into leaving so that this really is your own wiki. Your actions have done nothing more than support this now very likely possibility. This, as Ultraprime2 mentioned before, is an extremely irresponsible that you made that is completely unlike of a good administrator/bureaucrat. Wikis are communities. You fail to see that this is truth, apparently. Moreover, your attitude has been immensely disrespectful to the point where it is excessive, unnecessary, and offensive on high degrees. Repeatedly calling users in several derogatory ways that you can think of, and whenever possible, obviously shows that you lack a genuine courtesy to acknowledge anyone but yourself and those whom you are buddy-buddy with. Removing Remnant13's user rights only to then block him for three months under grounds of abusing his administrative powers is hypocritical. If that was you reasons, then both all of the administrators here, even myself, would have to have our rights removed because the only possible thing that shows administrative rights being abused are the constant back-and-forth deletions and restorations that all of us have participated in. None of Remnant13's actions as an administrator prior could show him abusing such power. That leaves my assumption as the only reasonable possibility for "abusing user rights" which would essentially make you a hypocrite since, despite participating in the acts, you would remove the rights of someone you disagree with as your response to it all. I will not elaborate further on your constant degrading of the users here, including myself. You've blatantly proven that you cannot hold back on your words and that you do not have anything kind to say towards just about anyone here, who do not edit on actively on any other wiki of yours. You have proven very clearly in these past few days that you cannot handle your user rights without having to be just and reasonable. As such, yours should be removed immediately.
 * Speysider
 * You made your first edits just hours before being made a bureaucrat/administrator. Since then, all you've done is make templates that have no use on this wiki and changes to the MediaWiki that are simply unneeded. Furthermore, you are constantly arguing with several of our most active and trusted users, acting very condescendingly and even threatening to use your newly-obtained user rights against them. That is more than disrespectful than it could ever be. Most of my reasons for wanting your rights removed are related to the reasons I gave for White Flash above, so I will not elaborate too much for you. I had hoped that you were reasonable enough to know that what privileges were given to you should not have been given at all and that you would do the correct thing about it. I understand that you have dealt with a similar situation before elsewhere, with an opposite approach as to how you are acting here about it. I'll just say, for the record, that it is just hypocritical. I won't go on further for you.
 * UltimateSupreme
 * While I admit, you have not done anything particularly disruptive on this wiki, you still have not yet done anything here that would be enough to allow you to retain your user rights as an administrator. Nonetheless, I will add though that your edits to the MediaWiki:Wikia.css were both helpful and unnecessary: while the removal of the tabber style was fine, and I admit that I did not notice it was already in the MediaWiki:Common.css, changing the picture attribution was nothing was going to be different prior. But, nonetheless, your supposedly "temporary" user rights here were not needed, frankly, and you should not have any reason to argue against this on you.
 * Also, should any of you do anything about the status of this forum, it will add another point that everything said about you individually, whoever would actually consider and perform the action, is true, should it not be clear to some people already. Actions that affect the nature of the forum would include closing it while it is still open, having it on page lock down that would prohibit any registered user to edit it, and simply deleting it whole. Also, should any message be intentionally omitted and should any user be directly prevented from replying to the forum, it will account for the same thing.
 * My reasons are that White Flash made someone a bureaucrat and an administrator without informing the community about it. Speysider did not even do an edit on the main namespace at that time and the user rights were given to him just after five hours when he first joined the wiki and left a message on White Flash's talk page. A User should have more good quailty edits than quantity, must be familiar with the series, must be a known and trusted user to the community can only become bureaucrat and adminitrator, and this is followed on most of the wikis. However, judging by Speysider's edits, he mostly edited talk pages, designing his own user page and making unneccessary templates such as "PolicyWarn", which will not be used because no user haven't violated any policies that severely. Bureaucrats should be experienced with the MediaWiki, but Speysider is not shown to have much experience with it. Speysider used the continuosly reverted my edits using the rollback option like this when they were not vandalism instead of using "(undo)" to give a proper reason in the edit summary for the revert. Also, Speysider made another user, UltimateSupreme, into an administrator and removing tabber codes in the MediaWiki:Wikia.css The edits he made in the main namespace is just making unneccessary redirects to the Policy pages and he did edit any known article of the series, this does not show how familiar he is with the series. White Flash's behavior Remnant13, such as this is intimidating and blocking him for deleting unneccessary templates was not right. he only deleted templates which are unneccessary for the site. As for these reasons stated, I support the removal of their user rights. 15:52, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * He simply can't behave in a professional level, taking reckless actions like making me and Glass administrators without prior discussion. Giving Admin rights to a user who just joined the wiki just because he knows him without consulting the other Admins, saying he doesn't trust us. If he doesn't trust us then why in the world did he give us admin rights in the first place.
 * The name calling now that's immature. Deeming our edits useless, without our help this Wiki wouldn't have this much contents and almost every thing here was written by Glass Heart. While I'm not an expert when it comes

to coding, but I created templates for this wiki, I don't just delete templates and complain. I deleted those templates because they didn't have any usage, though I admit I should have opened a discussion but from how he behaves we rarely discuss things with him, that's one of the reasons why we rarely discuss anymore unless it's completely necessary.
 * Regarding my block, so the reason was I abused my Admin Powers, correct? Let me ask you this... remember this Category? Didn't you delete this quite a few times without opening a discussion? also deleted another page I was working on saying they should be compiled on the series page. Don't forget you blocked an Anon that was contributing for 3 months because that person screwed up using the visual editor, you viewed it as vandalism. If my actions was considered "Abusing my Admin Rights" then surely your previous actions were too. I presumed you blocked me because you want me out of this Wiki and merely using it as an excuse, especially after reading your message in my talkpage.


 * -- If making you and Glass administrators against your will was such a horrible decision then, why didn't you both just immedately resign? Azareal (talk) 18:40, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because we didn't want any of White Flash's messes to remain unattended.
 * -- Realistically, vandals tend to do hit and runs in the form of anonymous users and to be honest, it only takes a few minutes to register which covers the entirety of Wikia. An anonymous user could be anyone, an organisation (think proxies), a mobile phone network, a household, an individual, etc. Azareal (talk) 18:57, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Hi White Flash and Speysider. You may not know who I am, but know this: I've been following your constant craving for disputes, which are based off on ignorant topics, for a while. You argue with the community as if lust was lingering about where you stand, which in my status list is drastically below that of an anon who enters a wiki with no other purpose other than to stain somebody else's work, and I'm sure that you are well aware of whom I speak of.

Knowing that, I believe and hope that you, White Flash, understand by now, despite the level of intelligence that you have displayed via the actions you've played out thus far, I hate the way you lead, no, order and treat the K wiki's community. At first, I was just a regular wikian that visited the wiki to read the amazing work of those who contribute meaningfully — Something I don't see you doing. However, as time progressed I noticed the arguments that led to greater confrontations between the two opposing parties. After that, I started to dislike your way of managing a wiki, you define dictatorship, and give the word an even greater, unpleasing meaning.

Locked until I feel like unlocking it — Okay went too far there. You are a disgrace to those who hold the title of Administrator, you are full of shit and do not know the definition of a community, you are an idiot, you are a hypocrite, you are the definition of what Mega hates most, White Flash. Rules? How can a leader lead when he does not obey the rules himself? How can his followers follow him if they hate him? Those are some questions you need to think of, you who holds grater power, at the moment, than those who surround you. Enough with the trash talk, on to the evidence that will lead to your dismay.

I would like to start off with the action that caused all this anger dwelling within a wikian's heart and mind. Speysider's Adminship, who is an even greater hypocrite and disgrace than you, surprisingly. I don't understand the reason why you made him an administrator, let alone a bureaucrat, when Glass Heart, who has devoted a great amount of time on the K wiki, and Remnant13, who is as hardworking as Glass Heart, are two worthy candidates for that position. Your help is needed — B.U.L.LS.H.I.T, complete and utter BS. Following that, he who you said would be a great addition to the team, threatens Glass by telling her that her rights will be removed if she does not shut up. Explain to me how a user who was made admin a few days ago tells a user who has been admin for a much, more longer time that which Speysider said.

Following your brainless decision, Speysider makes UltimateSupreme an Administrator, with the low excuse of: This is only temporary to allow this user to help with templates and css stuff for the wiki. :Please explain to me when the hell it was said that in order to make templates you need admin right. The css coding should not be allowed change by users that have 1, yes, 1 edit. And don't give me that "I know this user from another wiki" reply, don't compare wikis to one another, it is simply unproductive. What bothers me is that, Remnant13, the user who has made all of the templates for the K wiki, was ignored. He made all of the beautiful templates the wiki has now, and you simply take that away from him in a second. You should feel shame if you still hold some decency.

Remnant13's power removal was a rash decision, and full of mistakes. Remnant13, like I said before, worked his ass off to make the templates of the K wiki shine. And the reason for his power removal is a lie. You are well aware that Rem did not have any admin powers for 2 days, jog your memory.

I don't know UltimateSupreme, and I hope that all of the users from the Naruto wiki are not like that Speysider user, but in all honesty, he should not have the title he has now.

The way you talk to Glass Heart and the other users that make up the K's community is very offensive and unpleasing to read.

Well, I would love to go on about how much I hate you and your way of handling something that does not solely belong to you, White Flash. However, I think that the community should state that which bothers them. And let it be known, I have never, ever, in my wiki life, talked to anyone the way I have talked to you today. Omega natsu2 16:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * From I understand, his highly competent at adding templates so, it isn't unusual that such a skilled person would be called in to give support towards that field of expertise. All sorts of businesses call in specialists in order to give them support in areas of which they may be lacking and one of the key words here is "temporary" which the official dictionary definition is "lasting, existing, serving, or effective for a time only; not permanent".


 * "You are a disgrace to those who hold the title of Administrator, you are full of shit and do not know the definition of a community, you are an idiot, you are a hypocrite, you are the definition of what Mega hates most, White Flash."
 * Perhaps, you may want to stop the strong insults and communicate constructively as this simply shows a high level of immaturity and simply makes your position even worse especially, when users see how you behave in discussions like this.
 * "The way you talk to Glass Heart and the other users that make up the K's community is very offensive and unpleasing to read."
 * Take a look at my quote from you before, that behaviour was incredibly offensive and unpleasing to read.
 * "I don't know UltimateSupreme, and I hope that all of the users from the Naruto wiki are not like that Speysider user, but in all honesty, he should not have the title he has now."
 * I strongly hope that not all of the users from this wiki behave like you did just now.
 * "when Glass Heart, who has devoted a great amount of time on the K wiki, and Remnant13, who is as hardworking as Glass Heart, are two worthy candidates for that position."
 * Maybe, in the future. There are many factors involved in selecting bureaucrats and activity is merely one of them. This meaningless page for one is yet another one which is highly likely to impact that as well and whether they can actually be trusted. Either way, that ship has sailed and it is near impossible to get bureaucrat removed on such weak logic like.. He got promoted without consulting us. You said it yourself, you don't know UltimateSupreme and how he does business. Do we see him burning this wiki down and summoning forth demons from Hell? Blocking people left and right for the lulz? You don't even know how they act so, how can you deliver justice upon him to strike him down when he has done nothing against you? Azareal (talk) 19:27, February 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I am not familiar with the K-project wikia users so my opinion will not be bias towards any particular member, but I have read all the talk page messages exchanged, read the derivatives of the commotions that have manifested and the administrative actions that have been implemented. With that said, the conduct I have witnessed from White Flash seemed very unprofessional. I will not go into details but bottom line, if I were to create and maintain a wiki, I would not tolerate such conduct from myself, nor would I instigate said conduct from other users, to go as far as to allow arguments to get to a point where chaos would ensue.

Now, beyond my bias opinion, I can vouch for Glass Heart and Remnant13, as I do indeed work with them in another wiki and they have never had issues like this there. If anything, their contributions are quite stellar and their community involvement is greatly valued. This would only leave me to believe that changes would have to be made, but not from Glass Heart and Remnant13. Truthfully speaking, I'm not sure how this Wiki would look like without their tireless contributions. Umnei 16:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Pointless Forum
Well, considering the fact that everyone likes to live in imagination land and not facing the truth, (Glassy) I guess I should explain my thoughts
 * Omega natsu2:This involves editors of K Wiki, you are considered biased in this discussion. Your petty opinion of me doesn't hold as much weight. Try harassing someone else.
 * Glass Heart:Here we go again, you living in your own living imaginary world thinking your the targeted one. You are without a doubt the most ignorant user I've met on Wikia. I knew I shouldn't made you an admin.
 * Remant13: You know quite clear you abuse your admin rights, the deleted File:Favicon.png when I said no, you're ignoring the fact the those images and templates are helpful to this Wiki.
 * Ultraprime2:You barely edit here, so how is my "administrator (and bureaucrat) rights creates an atmosphere which is not beneficial to the majority of the users on this wiki"? --White Flash (Contact) 16:43, February 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I barely edit here? Right, and who was it that wrote our K: Memory of Red chapter summaries 1-7, created image character categories, wrote the chat policy and blog policy (the latter of which you ignored, though I guess it doesn't matter now) and started on the event summaries? You having a few hundred more edits than I do doesn't mean in the least that I "barely edit here".
 * It's your attitude that makes me not want to edit more. I came here trying to help but I've been ignored. I'll admit I don't edit as much as I'd liked or planned to, but that doesn't change anything. Every time I see comments where you call people "assholes" and such, it makes me sick. Don't worry though. Should this not work out, I'm perfectly willing to leave.
 * Since when I ignored you? Self pity is annoying at best Ultraprime, if want to leave, so be it. It doesn't affect me in anyway. Oh my so called "comment" by calling that to people or do you mean just Glass Heart?--White Flash (Contact) 16:57, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Didn't I clearly say you ignored me on the blog policy? It doesn't matter now (I just thought back then it'd be a good thing to have for the future if things became active) but that's what I was referring to. As to the comment, you know perfectly well what I meant and how it wasn't only Glass Heart you said that to.
 * White Flash, first of all, if I thought I was the only one being affected by you remaining on this wiki, then why would I bring up several of the others users who edit here that are clearly not the only ones who have to deal with you? I said before that I'm assuming you lacked courtesy to read what either of us really have to say. Given how you're replying back with half-ass responses, now I'm sure of it. You claim that I am the most ignorant person you have every met on this website. Frankly, with how you're trying to communicate with us, it would appear that you yourself is the one who holds the title.
 * Secondly, Remnant deleted images that were tagged for deletion, not used on this wiki, and were of low quality. Templates that he deleted were also unused and a majority of those that weren't were document ion templates which serve just about no purpose here that I can possibly think of. Also, "the deleted File:Favicon.png when I said no", only indicates further that you believe your word to be absolute on this wiki, despite the fact that you are not the only person who edits here.
 * Third, if you're really asking Ultra about how your user rights causes a disturbance in the wiki's atmosphere, then you clearly are not realizing how everyone else here has become intolerable of you actions.
 * And lastly, regarding Omega, he is an editor on this wiki. You've been here long enough to know that he has contributed here.
 * Glass Heart, quite trying to change my words. You of all people deserves that title of "Ignorant" not me. Do I really need to link some of your ignorant actions?
 * My words are only absolute when there is templates, images etc. are beneficial to this Wiki. File:Favicon.png is most certainly beneficial. Now here's what I find very funny,
 * Third, if you're really asking Ultra about how your user rights causes a disturbance in the wiki's atmosphere, then you clearly are not realizing how everyone else here has become intolerable of you actions.
 * I am in fact very tolerable which is why Glass Heart you are not block. You break several policies you should be, but I didn't. I let everyone do their way, but suddenly it's the other way around. --White Flash (Contact) 17:20, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

She's not talking about how you tolerate things. She's talking about how you behave. Your attitude is unbecoming of a person in charge of the place. You've treated it like your backyard with the language you throw around and how you expect things to be followed as per your word even when the others here disagree with you. If that thing was so beneficial, why didn't you at least explain it to the one deleting it? Surely, that'd have been a better option and more measures could've been taken if that failed. Rather than being calm and showing no emotion when deleting/restoring/whatever, you choose to be rude and disrespectful about it. Using the edit summary to call Remnant13, or anyone, "useless" is most certainly not going to be tolerable to most.


 * I'm not trying to change your words. I'm merely reflecting upon then and commenting to you about them.
 * And White Flash, that is just very hypocritical of you. You say you are not trying to run this wiki as though it were a dictatorship yet you admitted that you believe your word to be absolute. I said that those templates and images were unnecessary, did I not? I suppose unused content on this wiki is actually useful? I find it very funny that you believe that.
 * Furthermore, if you read my words carefully, you should know that I wasn't referring to you being tolerable of others. Rather, I was saying how just about everyone here is very intolerable of how you have been towards us. And yes, I broke policies that I wrote, how ironic of me. Plus, you've obviously been letting us do our own things lately; trying to remove this forum completely is a sure note of that.


 * Maybe it's because most of you do nothing but constantly complain about White Flash, deeming pretty much anything created by him as unecessary and defying a bureaucrat by undoing his edits or deleting his contributions. If I had my way, the normal users complaining here would be blocked or at least warned. There's also the fact almost every one of you do nothing but edit, revert and delete war when you don't get your own way. You don't know how to use talkpages to discuss issues and even if you do use them, all you do is leave intimidating replies or get mad because someone removed your edit. The people calling me, WF and UltimateSupreme hypocrites are hypocrites themselves. I've been watching this wiki well before I was crat'd and all I seen was most of you bashing WF and being insubordinatal against him. If that's not hypocritical, I don't know what is. And this forum is totally pointless and won't get anywhere. --Speysider Talk Page 17:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Everyone who supports the removal of Speysider, UltimateSupreme and myself rights are seriously living in denial. Rather looking at our actions, you should look at yourselves Glass Heart, Remant13.--White Flash (Contact) 17:36, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well Speysider, I'm curious as to why you say we "defy" him. Bureaucrats are not above regular users. They just have tools that are meant to be used to help the wiki. The word of a bureaucrat is not law. Their power is for issues like vandalism, MediaWiki and such. If a bureaucrat isn't doing something, for example, then the active users have every right to ask staff that their powers be removed. We can't be insubordinate cause we're not his subordinates. We're editors and we can edit pages as we see fit and if there is a problem, we take it up. We've used talk pages many times so how you can say we don't is hard for me to understand. Rather than call us hypocrites, feel free to read over the things you've apparently seen on this wiki.
 * White Flash, I'm sure those two haven't been the ones using offensive language or locking forums
 * So basically, his only your leader when it's convienient to you? Talk about weak logic. Welcome to the real world, where leadership exists. Countries have leaders, businesses have leaders. Heck, even Wikia has a leader. Without a leader, you have chaos.Azareal (talk) 19:34, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Apparently, you're not getting what I said. A bureaucrat's rights are to give user rights. An admins is for blocking vandals, MediaWiki and such. They have no authority beyond that stuff. They enforce policy and punish those who refuse to follow it. They have no right to "control" other users in any capacity. And this is the internet, not the real world, so I don't even know why you're bringing that up.
 * facepalm. Oh but I'm sure they deleted images and templates without a discussion.--White Flash (Contact) 17:40, February 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Right, they're the only two guilty of deleting things without discussion.

Yes, deleting unused and unnecessary junk on the wiki requires a discussion. I suppose reverting bad edits and blocking vandals require one as well?
 * Yep, very helpful templates you call junk.--White Flash (Contact) 17:43, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * And yet, despite hanging around on the wiki, they were never used up to their deletions. Now, if they were "very helpful" as you so claim, the why were they never used? You seem to be avoiding this specific point about how they have always been unused since it was brought up here.
 * Because certain people keep on deleting them and not letting people actually use them and start bawwing because of it. >_>
 * Stop the sarcasm Glass Heart. It is not needed. You don't outright delete something unless the rest of the community agrees it should be removed. If it is a sysop that recommended an article or template be deleted, the deletion will be done by a bureaucrat if they see it necessary. All the templates that I have created on here are not useless, unnecessary, junk and whatever crap you come out with: they are useful templates to assist users, but since you are so blinded anyway, this won't sink into your head at all. The only reason this forum has been made is because you are jealous and you dislike having changes to the wiki that you don't like. Seriously, you remind me of certain people elsewhere on the internet >_> --Speysider Talk Page 17:48, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Speysider, those templates have been on here for months, long before myself or Remnant were made administrators. They were still unused. So frankly, it's not because we deleted them that they are unused. You said you've been visiting this place long enough to know what's been going on? I would assume that you knew even that, to be honest. And, as stated many times here, bureaucrats do not have the final say in everything. I'll have you know that bureaucrats do not have access to sysop powers if they do not hold the title in addition. Being a bureaucrat is simply an extra right that you and White Flash have. And Speysider, those templates are simply unnecessary. Perhaps my mind is too clouded up to realize that to you. I would disagree. Policy Warning templates can easily be dealt with by a user's own words; we really do not need a template to tell policy breakers about their actions, especially since we rarely have such around here. And changes that prove that our bureaucrats/administrators are becoming irresponsible and piss-poor about many things against them, yes, it is something that only I think, despite the fact that 5 other people here have very similar thoughts. Good to know you believe that. And I remind people of other people; who doesn't?
 * Oh no, you're just that too ignorant to never realized that. You've done nothing but whine and complain until you get what your little heart desires. I swear your ego is literally out of whacked. Not once have I ever seen a user like you. You constantly ignore the facts Speysider and myself provided. Like I said, you live in imagination land. You want things your way and get the other users to help you like that forum about .GIFS. As far I as can tell, Glassy, you don't care about small time users, only yourself and other you know very well, Ultraprime, Remant, Omega Natsu2, etc. --White Flash (Contact) 18:05, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

So more people agree with her than they do with you and all of a sudden, she's going after "what (her) little heart desires" by opening forums for legitimate discussion? I myself stated my reasons as to why .GIFS are beneficial. Other users were in agreement and so they were allowed. I'd think that's fine but apparently, you disagree because it's not what you want.
 * If it means caring about the other viewers then yes. Ultraprime, you know why I was against it and my reasons were valid, but you ignored it like always.--White Flash (Contact) 18:12, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * I didn't even understand your reasons, personally. Nobody I spoke to (and I didn't just rush into things) had similar problems with gifs. It's not like we use them on every page. Gifs are only used when need be. The only issues I've ever encountered with them is that at first, they load slowly but when a page had fully loaded, they play fine. Their quality is dependent on how they're made and I've never experienced a situation like internet connections making gifs look poorly pixelated, and as Glass Heart or pretty much anyone else can tell you, my internet can be crappy as hell at points. Like I said, nobody else seemed to have this issue and so it's a simple matter of majority rule. {User:Ultraprime2/Sig1|18:18,2/9/2013}}
 * Saying you didn't understand my reasons is just exactly what I mean as you ignore my reasons. "nobody else seemed to have this issue" only in your little head. Not in reality.--White Flash (Contact) 18:20, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Gif's are terrible. The largest anime based wiki on the entirety of wikia does not use gif's. Gif's are just bad in general. --Speysider Talk Page 18:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * @White Flash: I didn't ignore your reasons. I looked into them, which is how I know that if anything, your situation is a minority. So you're saying the other users who voted in favor of gifs felt differently in their heads but still voted to allow them even if it'd cause problems for them? Yeah, that seems likely.
 * @Speysider: What other wikis do or don't do should not affect our decisions. This is K-Project Wiki, not Yu-Gi-Oh, One Piece or anything else. I'm not even sure why them not using gifs matters. If we need them, we should use them.
 * It could be the reason why I allow is .gifs is that I'm tolerable no? If other wikis didn't use them, then that could be a good reason as to why we shouldn't have but instead Glass Heart and others step their foot down and say "No, we need them". Another example of Glass Heart's behavior.--White Flash (Contact) 18:29, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

And how does other wikis not doing things mean we shouldn't? Not all wikis do the same thing. Some have edit requirements to enter chat while some abhor that idea. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for all, if it works for any other. And also, I don't think that is an example at all. It's just a matter of her stating her opinion and others agreeing. I really don't get why you are against a simple voting system. I realize it's not all what you want, but really, hasn't her content work proven that she cares about this place?
 * Glass Heart's so called "work" was for the reason of getting admin rights. She will do anything just like she stalked my discussions with other users. So I can easily tell she wants to rule this Wiki with an iron fist.--White Flash (Contact) 18:39, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * That's what you personally think. Everyone knows content work isn't the only way of getting administrator rights. Glass and I actually talked about the series and saw this wiki and felt it ought to be worked on when information came out. Her interest in the series was what drove her to edit. Not interest in admin rights. Your assessment is based on this idea that she's come kind of tyrant and really isn't accurate. She's never once abused another user with the kind of language and she hasn't expected things to go her way. Her opening of forums is not any kind of indication about that. Her views were simply that of the majority on issues. And she "stalked" your discussions with other users...really? There are relatively few people who don't do that.
 * Well, Ultra has summarized most of what I was planning on saying. I don't have much to add that you, White Flash, will want to say anything about. And frankly, what you do with other users interests me very little. Things that concern the wiki, such as those sudden affiliates and removal of affiliations (which you never replied back about) is one thing; that I'll say.
 * Ultraprime:You're contradicting yourself. Seriously. I've seen her actions towards other users that weren't so nice nor fair. As for her stalking, she somehow know that Star can be reach via email (Another example of her persistent annoyance). That being said, she's a terrible example of an admin.
 * Glassy:When I don't replied to someone, it could possible means that I'm busy IRL right? It's only you isn't it? The world must revolve around you, you can't even acknowledge a discussion unless it's about you or something you want.--White Flash (Contact) 18:54, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'll admit, as would she, that Glass can be quite blunt but I've never seen her use abusive language. Check her edit summaries. She never uses terms like "asshole" or "useless" when talking about people. All Wikia users can be reached by email. That's nothing of a secret. Furthermore, she's no worse of an admin than you've proven yourself to be, if she is bad at all, which is quite a subjective statement. I personally think she's done well, but again, that's subjective. Still, this shows the vendetta you have against her. You're willing to go to such lengths to put her down is saddening.
 * I've been blunt and straightforward with users, including you, White Flash. Give me an example of how I was not being nice or fair to anyone here, why don't you? Nothing that I have done could even imply that I am being piss-poor with others. And I said that StarCrossedWonderland "can't" be reached via email because I've emailed her before, and she never replied back. How is that the same as me stalking your conversations with her? And hell, we still haven't heard word from her despite the forum about removing her rights. She isn't making any effort to coming back, that has been made very clear.

Funny. That's all you have to say, and you still do not want to answer that even now? Very funny, if you ask me.
 * Ultraprime:Frankly, Glassy remove or delete things arbitrarily just like Remant. Not by a discussion or anything. On contrary, I am a good example of an Admin, if I wouldn't edit on Wikis such as Narutopedia. Still in denial Ultraprime, no matter what I say, your still on Glassy's side all of what she does is better than anyone else.
 * Glass Heart: She's busy IRL too mind, and saying how she "break policies" is very hypocritical of you. You know what's funny, you still having your rights and calling my work a mess and yet you're not block. I'm seriously starting to think about that.--White Flash (Contact) 19:08, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * You claim she's deleting things arbitrarily and that makes her a bad admin while you're a good admin. Need I remind you who deleted this forum and locked a previous one? Nobody is perfect but at the very least, Glass has started and participated in discussions while you've not done the same and instead handed out user rights like they were candy on the grounds that "you're busy" and yet you now seem more active than ever. And yeah I'm on her side so naturally I'm going to argue in favor of that because it's what I think is right.
 * Cleared up the formatting of the page. Now it looks readable instead of a mess of signatures being on newlines >_> --Speysider Talk Page 19:17, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * You are still contradicting yourself Ultraprime, not realizing the fact that Glass Heart's actions were unjustified and mere dictatorship.--White Flash (Contact) 19:22, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

White Flash, stop going back on already-discussed topics. This is becoming annoying because apparently, you're not trying to move forward with anything we say. In fact, you're still ignoring several points previously brought up. Either have something else to say that you haven't already or just don't say anything at all. It'll just become a pointless continuation of a discussion in this so-called "pointless" forum. I'll clear up some things that you are evidently going back on to make things clear. And one more thing, don't call me Glassy. I relent for users whom I have a good relationship with; frankly, I hate that nickname and you using is just being mockful. And now that you know, calling me it further would prove even more that you can't be pleasant and courteous with other users here.
 * I only delete what is evidently unnecessary on the wiki. If those templates and images were unnecessary, then why were they simply floating around for months with absolutely nothing for them to be put into good use for?
 * It's hypocritical of me to say that StarCrossedWonderland breaks policies? She has broken policies. I haven't. In fact, I wrote them, which you know very well since you approved of them on the wiki. Even the GIFS issue which you relented on. And I'm aware that she's busy in real life. You claim that you are as well but given your rising activity in these past two days, that's hard to believe.
 * And you already removed my user rights for "insubordination" when no one here is your subordinate, or Speysider's. Doesn't matter now, right? Nice job on abusing your power, which by the way has been mentioned frequently here. Locking up this forum "per request"? More like for your own sake, when I look at it. I'm glad though that Speysider has a sense to not do so.
 * Moreover, if I am a "dictator", then you are no better, White Flash.


 * Do you even know what the word "insubordination" means ? Clearly you don't. --Speysider Talk Page 19:25, February 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Disobeying "authorities" willingly, am I right? White Flash has no right to think of himself as such; that's the main point, Speysider.
 * Yes. For example, White Flash blocked another user today and you went around him and removed the block. That is an example of insubordination (you were out of line to revert the blocking as you are not a crat). Also, stop putting your signature onto a new line, it just makes the page a mess. >_> --Speysider Talk Page 19:39, February 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Bureaucrats without administrative rights have almost no power here. I said that before but I guess you either forgot or chose to ignore it. Moreover, I suppose that even if I do something like block a user for no reason and simply because I dislike them, that doesn't mean I'm wrong in doing so? I call bullshit on that. That's what you're trying to tell me from the looks of it.
 * And how about you don't edit my posts and complain about them? You can try doing the same for the others. They're not doing anything wrong that actually hurts this forum or others' messages.
 * Bureucrats are the people who issue and revoke administrative rights. Bureaucrat status is nearly impossible to remove without the intervention of Wikia itself which is generally only done when the current bureaucrat decides to vanish for months on end. Even a Bureaucrat can't remove Bureaucrat status from others. Azareal (talk) 20:04, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Bureucrats are the people who issue and revoke administrative rights. Bureaucrat status is nearly impossible to remove without the intervention of Wikia itself which is generally only done when the current bureaucrat decides to vanish for months on end. Even a Bureaucrat can't remove Bureaucrat status from others. Azareal (talk) 20:04, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Just so you know, Azareal, I'm not unaware of that.


 * And I suggest you lose your hypocrisy and arrogance. You did in fact break the policies. You uploaded duplicate images here and going back to our discussion of "junk trivia" you behave incivility. I am a very good admin in fact, far more better than you. You haven't bring up any evidence of Star's so called "breaking the policies" so once again, you put a baseless accusations on someone. Rather rude of you to do that to her, Glassy.--White Flash (Contact) 19:30, February 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Duplicates? They're high quality images, I'll have you know. If they were really duplicates, then whatever image that came first before them, considered to be "duplicated", would be pretty much the same. But they aren't, are they? High Quality is not the same as Low Quality and PNGS are not JPEGS.
 * Calling yourself a good administrator, when just about everything you've been doing now completely says otherwise, is a highly arrogant statement and hypocrisy in your own light. Yet you refer to me as such? I'm not the one continuously trying to prove myself as a superior individual here; just so you know that.
 * A baseless accusation to say with no evidence? Tell me. Did you not fully read my personal warning to her?
 * Keep calling me that and you'll continue to prove that you're not the "good" administrator that you consistently and arrogantly claim yourself to be.
 * /scratches head. Funny. When you claim they were higher quality you never uploaded a newer version of a poor quality images. Leaving me too delete tons and tons of images That does in fact tell me, you're a terrible admin as to why your rights were removed. You just want become the "popular editor" everything to be done by you and not letting everyone else having a chance. Star shouldn't have her rights be removed, Glassy. I'm not the villain here. You are.--White Flash (Contact) 19:47, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * /scratches head. Funny. When you claim they were higher quality you never uploaded a newer version of a poor quality images. Leaving me too delete tons and tons of images That does in fact tell me, you're a terrible admin as to why your rights were removed. You just want become the "popular editor" everything to be done by you and not letting everyone else having a chance. Star shouldn't have her rights be removed, Glassy. I'm not the villain here. You are.--White Flash (Contact) 19:47, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

You only deleted images that were recently tagged. I'm the one who deleted over 100 images that you refused to do. And don't give me that attitude. If I wanted everything to be done by me, then I could have even rewrote the templates so that they were how I did it. But I don't want everything to be done by my hands. Yes, I have done a lot so far, but who else is doing them now? No one, right? I'm not letting this wiki be a barren wasteland of information, White Flash. And if StarCrossedWonderland shouldn't have had her rights removed, then perhaps she could have made more effort to help out, even in her busy life. She has not even logged on for months. She's not dedicated enough to even visit this place. Why should someone like that remain a bureaucrat/administrator?


 * If you have a look at every other wiki on the Wikia Service, do you see the communities on each one making forum threads asking Wikia to have the founder demoted ? No. Demoting the founder is insulting, so what if they don't visit ? The founder of NP hasn't visited or edited it for over 7 years, but nobody else cares about demoting them. --Speysider Talk Page 19:56, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Insulting or not, if they're unable to make effort to do anything here, let alone and check up on things, then they don't need to retain their rights. It's that simple. We're not NP Wiki. What they do, and what you see other wiki communities do, is irrelevant here.
 * The fact that they're the founder is irrelevant. If you had a person with power who did nothing at all, would they really be able to keep their position? They would be let go due to negligence. If someone is not doing their duty, they are then removed. Furthermore, what happens elsewhere with other admins is of no concern. All wikis are unique.
 * Now then Glassy, you said you're a better admin but saying how Star is not dedicated is nothing but pure ignorance, rude and out of line. She's the founder here, is it so difficult of you to show some respect? Of course for you, it is. You can't acknowledge the fact that everyone has more important things to do in IRL, so that's why you along with your bad of arrogant users (Ultraprime, Remant, Omega Natsu) to have her rights removed. Like I said, you're nothing but a dictator.--White Flash (Contact) 20:03, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Now then Glassy, you said you're a better admin but saying how Star is not dedicated is nothing but pure ignorance, rude and out of line. She's the founder here, is it so difficult of you to show some respect? Of course for you, it is. You can't acknowledge the fact that everyone has more important things to do in IRL, so that's why you along with your bad of arrogant users (Ultraprime, Remant, Omega Natsu) to have her rights removed. Like I said, you're nothing but a dictator.--White Flash (Contact) 20:03, February 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I never said that I am a better administrator; please actually read our messages to you. StarCrossedWonderland founded the wiki. Yes. That's not enough reason for her to keep her rights if she's been gradually detaching herself from this place; that's not dedication now, is it? I can respect that she founded this wiki but I won't give her respect for a title she no longer has right to. And I can acknowledge that users are busy in real life; haven't I said that multiple times already, and haven't I repeated myself multiple times already that you do not know how to move past from? And I'm not a dictator. I've said it before and I've said it again.
 * Only because you're ignorant right Glassy?--White Flash (Contact) 20:12, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * Only because you can't move on a different point, address that, and be able to back yourself up. If you can, then most of what you've been saying wouldn't just be the same thing in rephrased sentences, now would it?
 * You seemed to have an excuse for anything Glassy. How about you actually admit your actions and behavior, otherwise you're just stifling the discussion.--White Flash (Contact) 20:18, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * You seemed to have an excuse for anything Glassy. How about you actually admit your actions and behavior, otherwise you're just stifling the discussion.--White Flash (Contact) 20:18, February 9, 2013 (UTC)
 * You seemed to have an excuse for anything Glassy. How about you actually admit your actions and behavior, otherwise you're just stifling the discussion.--White Flash (Contact) 20:18, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

You know what, if I'm really stifling this discussion, then why are you still participating in it? You're only going back on every single thing previously discussed here. You're not progressing in anything else Ultra or myself have been saying to you. White Flash, you ignore new points brought to attention. It's been made very clear by how you're casually ignoring them. So, instead of this discussion becoming even more "stifled", how about you either say something new that was already brought to attention but you decided to ignore, or just say nothing at all? I'm pretty much done talking to you about anything else. You don't want to discuss; that's obvious now. I don't want to waste time discussing with someone who's trying to pull everyone back to the same thing over and over again.

I have not done anything wrong. Things that needed to be deleted, were deleted. All of the images that you refused to remove from this wiki were tagged for deletion. They were not in particular article use during the time I was deleting them. They were unnecessary. That, despite your insistence otherwise, is completely true. You can't argue that I deleted something important when its clear that it was not. I rarely deleted templates. I restored those that you arbitrarily wanted to remove or I deleted what was gone but you wanted to restore. There wouldn't be any issue like that on the templates had there been actual use for them. It was evident that there wasn't and that there will never be. It's been said to you several times already. I advise to finally realize that. As for my "attitude", the most I've done is be blunt and straightforward with you and Speysider. If you don't like it, then fine. I don't mean to offend either of you. But you and Speysider both have, made obvious by your constant derogatory terms directed at me and Remnant. You want me to admit what I never did yet you and your buddy both refuse to take responsibility for what you've done and said? Like it or not, that's hypocrisy. Straight out. This forum was made to remove both of your rights, as well as UltimateSupreme's, whose rights are still here despite the fact that he has apparently taken care of all that "needed to be done". You have been abusing your rights. Your eyes may not see it. Your mind may not believe it. But it is true and you have no reason to deny it.

Btw, I see that two new users here have sided with you guys. They've never even edited here before until today. Hell, the newest one to support the opposition just joined Wikia today. How suspicious. I'm assuming that you guys are meat puppetting on this forum. At least some of the people who supported the rights removal, such as Rifatmfarid, Omega natsu 2, and Umnei have actually edited here, as much as is sounds so unbelievable to you guys.

Again, if you're not going to say anything that has already been discussed and dealt with, you don't need to respond to this. This goes for everyone.


 * Ah yes here we go and go again with your ego and self righteousness. Claiming how I'm abusing my rights and accusing new editors as sockpuppets of me. You still continued to put up a baseless accusation on someone who is not on your side. Seriously Glass Heart, why are you still here? Before I hear another of your random BS excuses, take my word, admit your actions otherwise you'll sound a bigger hypocrite than you so called me.--White Flash (Contact) 20:42, February 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * It really shows how weak the whole opposition is actually. I heard about the whole situation along with this page and thought it was so bs that I just had to drop in and give you my 2c.
 * And from the sounds of it, it's the usual admins being fired and trying to get revenge upon their boss in order to try to drag him down with them and potentially even trying to take the crown due to there being no bureaucrats after
 * The whole former admins teaming up, trying to raise a rebellion and usurp power is pretty interesting. Heck, could probably even base an anime series off it.

That's my assumption which will probably not sit too nicely with you but then again, you decided to make assumptions of your own so, no complaining there. Azareal (talk) 20:48, February 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Directed at GlassHeart or whatever their name is, just preventing possible confusion. I was apparently editting this page at the same time as White Flash.Azareal (talk) 20:51, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if the Naruto wikia doesn't use GIFs. That just proves the point that GIFs are actually quite beneficial considering how bad the Naruto wikia is due to so many different issues. SeaTerror (talk) 03:17, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Closed
Annnd just like that, this forum is closed. Permanently. After a discussion I had, this nothing but a plot, coup d'état as to be frank. That being said the following users who were involve of trying to overthrown our rights will be blocked.--White Flash (Contact) 21:08, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Opened
There are certain things that are core to the wiki spirit and act as guiding principles to the wiki ideal. Things like transparency, openness, and working together as a community. Closing open discussions and blocking the community members who engaged in valid communication on this issue is as far away from the community guidelines as you can get. To that end, I have temporarily removed the user rights of the current leadership, restored this forum, and unblocked the participants. It is clear that the community can not move forward under these conditions. The time has come for a serious consideration of how this wiki should conduct itself and who will take the lead in designing the future of this community. Please use this as a place to have this discussion in an open and inclusive way. The community as a whole needs to come together and decide who will handle administrative duties for this wiki.